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Old 13-06-11, 18:37   #11
CaptainCortez CaptainCortez is offline United Kingdom
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Is there a deadline for this feedback Karl?

I've got a lot to say about it, but still have lots to type up for the StickTwiddler guys in regard to the whole E3 event.

I'm doing separate posts for most of Capcom's games, so was going to copy over and maybe reword all of the relevant bits after I've typed up what I have to say.

I would have probably been one of the first to give you feedback otherwise, but I've got so much to do that I want to get it out of the way, use what I can and then give you my thoughts, if that's ok?
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Old 14-06-11, 06:28   #12
CaptainCortez CaptainCortez is offline United Kingdom
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Feedback just for Devil May Cry!

I have a little bit to say about the new DmC.

Although I’ve been strongly against the idea from the start, after the latest trailer shown at E3, I now have a lot more faith. Now this may be out of choice, but I feel it's more of a case of I have to for the sake of the Devil May Cry name. I want and need this new game to be good.

In the forum, we've all given a huge amount of constructive criticism on the game (good and bad), but too many places on the internet (including a fair amount on here) just have people moaning and not offering any real, good or decent feedback.

Calling both Capcom and Ninja Theory names doesn't help anyone. Constructive criticism however, does. People don't need to be put down just because they're doing what they were instructed to do. Many of you should know that NT's original character concepts were extremely close to that of that original Dante.

Also, I saw on twitter a day or two ago that Hideki Kamiya (creator of DMC1 and Bayonetta) actually intended Dante to be British, so the Union Jack on Dante's sleeve to me, is perfectly acceptable.

My impressions of the game:

Now, I above all else am absolutely against the hairstyle. Dante's face has improved a great deal since the original TGS trailer, and he actually resembles a younger and more refined (graphically, as there's more texture detail in his face than there was for DMC3) version of Devil May Cry 3 Dante (in my opinion).

I'm an absolutely massive fan of Devil May Cry and still hold DMC1 on a Pedestal, standing as the greatest DMC game of all time, although DMC3 wasn't far behind.

What made DMC1 the greatest to me was how epic the game actually was.

The bosses had some of the greatest designs I had (and still have) ever seen. Nelo Angelo has to be the best boss in a DMC game ever, and all of the music was outstanding. All of the electro beats were immense and pretty new for their time, and most of all, the game was actually extremely creepy.

Although DMC1 had a huge amount of style, it was the blend of Resident Evil gameplay that really made it stand out from the crowd, and no game in the series has ever returned to this concept, which is why horror faded out and gave way just for sheer style (which I don't like as much).

Gameplay wise, DMC1 is my favourite because you really had to be precise with your attacks and on the ball at all times. No enemy was a punching bag. Every enemy could kill you in a flash if you weren't paying enough attention, and they all had absolutely fantastic design.

Bosses would hunt you down constantly, and if you played on hard difficulty or above, the AI was so good that it could actually equal (and even surpass) your playing ability, which gave the game an extremely punishing, yet hugely rewarding challenge.

I really miss this, and it's for these reasons that DMC1 will always remain to be my favourite of the series.

DMC3 however introduced a much more talkative and younger Dante, and without a shadow of a doubt, had the greatest storyline of any DMC game to date.

DMC4 was cool but nothing in comparison to 1 and 3, and DMC2 was okay, but completely flawed in every way, and took a huge back step from the original, which is one of the reasons the game was hated so much.

Now, going back to the new trailer for DmC; I do actually quite like it.

The game now feels like a Devil May Cry game. It still has a fair way to go, but it finally feels Devil May Cry-esque. Dante even feels like Dante in a lot of ways. I can accept the Peter Pan boots and skinny jeans, but just not the hair. The hair is the only thing letting me down, and stopping me from embracing Dante as Dante.

He isn't a crack addict, meth addict, die hard twi-hard or anything like that. He is simply a younger and much rougher around the edges version of himself. He's most likely on the run, trying to hide who he really is, maybe dying his hair, maybe cutting it himself in a rushed attempt to change his identity, making him unrecognisable to himself and others around him, as this is the only way he can go unnoticed.

Why would he go to a hairdressers if he's avoiding contact with the public and anyone/thing else that's after him? He could even be trying to run from his bloodline. He's in hiding, rebelling against society and his own being by the look of things.

For me personally, I'd love it if his hair was longer, similar to that of DMC3, and if it's black, it doesn't matter because when he flicks on Devil Adrenaline Mode (DAM as I call it), he would look like the Dante we know pretty much 100%.

I think people forget that we have all been told of Dante's story through narration in previous games. Stories change and get misinterpreted as time goes on, so we should be experiencing his true origins first hand. This is Dante in the making. What made him turn out the way he is today?

Well, I think Vergil helped a great deal in turning him into the fun loving and good guy who we all love. So yea, Vergil will almost definitely appear in this game, and his looks shouldn't have changed that much as I very much doubt he's on the run from anything. If anything, he'll be running around killing everything he sees, all power hungry. So, my theory on Vergil is that he'll turn up to offer help to Dante at the same time of having his own ulterior motive to betray and mislead Dante.

Dante will then see how evil his twin is, and although he couldn't ever hate his own blood (as shown at the end of DMC3), he would hate what his brother is trying to achieve. This could be Dante’s turning point, making him rebel not against himself, but against his own sibling, giving him that grasp of what is actually good and pave a new path for him, making him want to become a great symbol of hope for all of humanity, turning against his entire demonic bloodline.

DMC3 started with Dante saying to Vergil that it's been a long time, so my guess is that this will show how that sibling rivalry actually triggered. Don't forget that Dante and Vergil happily played together as kids. Puberty could have got the best of Vergil, but Dante could just be dealing with his brother putting him down, his mother’s death, the feeling of abandonment from his father, and the fact that he has 100% evil blood in him....except he doesn't because his mother was human. So, this is possibly going to show the realisation of his own purpose as he works out what's up with him or going on with the world. It has huge potential. Ninja Theory and Capcom just have to do it right!

What I love about the trailer is how well the music fits with it.

Now, I know a fair few of you think the song doesn't suit Devil May Cry, but it really does. Electro has ALWAYS been a main musical theme for the series. Devil May Cry 1 had a mix of Orchestral Electro and Electro Rock, where as DMC3 had more of an Electro Rock/Electro Metal theme going on, although Nevan's battle theme was completely flat out 100% electro, so the music is heading in the right direction, unlike what I saw in the really nasty TGS trailer. The music from that teaser was just plain wrong. I do not want that coming back.

Anyway, in the new trailer, a stand out point for me is the way Dante scrapes his sword along the ground in Slow mo. That is Dante. That is a character trait of his. Also, in the cathedral scene, when Dante attacks all of the marionettes and walks towards the screen as it's about to fade, all of the pews drop perfectly into their original positions. This to me suggests that the over the top cutscenes will make a return.

The gameplay itself looked pretty cool. It was a little bit rough, but in places it ran pretty smooth and the combat was pretty much DMC (possibly with a splash of Bayonetta which I actually want removed. This is DMC, the game that paved way for Bayonetta. You've gotta set new standards!).

What I didn't like was when Dante went into Devil Adrenaline Mode. The art style was new and kinda funky, but the Slow mo aspect is a huge no from me. Devil Trigger is meant to keep gameplay the same speed and just make Dante faster and more badass. Making DAM activate slow mo makes all enemies useless and takes away the challenge, so I'd like to see that gone as well.

I don't like the slow-mo finishers of the weapons. DMC has always been about speed. Dante's tactics are kill (in as flashy a way as possible), move forward to next target, repeat. I wouldn't expect to see him with a massive red axe that heavily smacks a demon to pieces. All of his moves must be quick, although I understand he's rougher around the edges, so may not have found his thing yet, or have gained enough experience to be quick with every weapon.

The marionettes look okay in design, and look a lot darker in the cathedral, but there's nothing scary or daunting about them. I wouldn't go up to one and think I was in too much trouble to be honest. Also, I know in DMC1 the marionettes could string you up, blast you with shotguns and throw sickles at you (as well as grabbing you), but I just don't know if chainsaw wielding marionettes fits into the game properly. Why would they have chainsaws?

I wasn't fond of the fat guys design in the cathedral either. It looked too much like something that would fit into the world of Heavenly Sword or Enslaved.

I really liked the Heavenly Sword demo and loved the full game of Enslaved, but this is DMC. It hasn't got anything to do with those titles, other than share the same creators.

His size is awesome, but I'd prefer for his design to change, and that weird cockroach woman boss at the end of the trailer is just mental. From the video, it made me think it was a very poorly designed boss, but when I get a hands on with the game, maybe my opinion will change. I don't know.

I do actually like Dante's clothes, and love the fact they've changed quite a bit from the TGS show (in a good way!). Also, Dante's wearing the same gloves he had on in DMC3, so that's quite special. As I said, the only real thing preventing me from accepting him as a character is his hairstyle. If the first fight of the game involved a giant lawnmower, I could understand why you chose to have him strut this hairstyle about, but just no. His hair wasn't anything like Tameem's in the TGS trailer, nor is it now. I think crazier people just wanted to compete in seeing who can come out with the silliest comment.

Anyway, I know it seems ridiculous going on about his hair so much, but he is Dante and that is his trademark after all, so it really does count with the original fans.

As I said though I have a greater deal of faith (it's so far paid off to push aside my dislikes and hope for the best) now, and do like how it's beginning to shape up.

The quality of the game must remain to be as awesome as the screens I posted in our DMC assets thread suggests! <3

Keep the electro thing going on. Maybe mix it up with rock and orchestral sounds like the older games, but it wouldn't hurt to play about with the music, maybe giving us an electro punk sound to listen to, ask for our feedback and see where it gets you. If we like a sound idea you've come up with, don't necessarily put that into the game, but more take the time out to understand what we like about it, and make original sounds from there.

You could even change the sound depending on where Dante is in the game. Orchestral Electro when in a church, Electro Rock when in a standard fight, pure Electro or something very unique for each boss etc. There are a lot of options left on the table for you to consider.

Also, judging from the trailer music, this song would fit into the game pretty well, during a moment of Dante's becoming/realisation of who he really is:

http://youtu.be/K_2Z32qCYBg

It would work well for a future trailer, but I'm just using it as an example of the music direction you could head towards. Of course I'd still want to see some very original and awesome soundtrack surface for the game.

If the soundtrack is good, I'd like to see it bundled in a Collectors Edition of the game, or free to download from your website.

What I want to return:

Red Orbs - An absolute must

Jump Cancelling - This all depends on well the Unreal Engine can cope. Many people are shocked by the locked 30FPS performance, but hopefully the engine can be tweaked to a great degree.

Bosses that chase you through levels.

Statue of Time's.

Devil Arms - It's always been a gameplay trademark to kill a boss and have it turn into a weapon. Well, in DMC3 it has been. DMC1 had you discover Alastor when all of a sudden it penetrated you, you found the Ifrit Gloves after some platforming, and you killed Nightmare to gain the Nightmare laser weapon.

The fast and frantic, yet oh so rewarding gameplay of DMC3.

The darkness of DMC1.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the fact Dante has his drive move in the game for his sword. It's exactly the same animation as that of DMC3, so that's awesome!

I want to see how Dante got Ebony and Ivory.

I want to see how Dante got the Rebellion.

I don't want the game feeling like Ninja Gaiden with varied weight to each weapon, some being more effective than others. I want them all to be just as effective.

I'm digging the fact the game is even more over the top (combat wise) than DMC3. I mean launching an enemy 60 feet in the air, rather than the standard 30 or so from previous games? Nice decision!

I really love the aqua blue scythe so far, and the guns are okay, but the other weapons still need a lot of work, but I'll let you off as development is still very much in progress.

Oh, and I just realised how long my post has become, so apologies for such a bomb shell, but I am incredibly passionate about the series. Devil May Cry 1 is the main reason I signed up on these forums seven years ago, so I really want this game to turn into a huge success!

Anyway, I hope this helps in some way and am looking very forward to testing it at Capcom before Christmas. I really just hope your collaboration with Ninja Theory does the game justice and feels like Devil May Cry in every way, so all the best guys!

Last edited by CaptainCortez; 14-06-11 at 06:38..
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Old 15-06-11, 10:20   #13
Colbea Colbea is offline United Kingdom
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DMC: Bin that emo rubbish, I really hope that is downplayed. Although if the gameplay is still solid then I won't mind.

Third Strike OE:
This basically looks like everything done right, this should be used as a template going forwards in games. Basic things like button config (key mapping style, so it doubles as a button check) in the character select screen need to be in every future title. A lot of capcom games suffer from the fact that nobody takes a minute to actually think about the menus for the games, since there are some minor tweaks that would make things so much easier for people. This is one of those things.

SFxTekken: Looks like the natural successor to SF4:AE since the balance is very much looking to be screwed right now. Priority #1 to ensure the game has long term survival is balance.
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Old 15-06-11, 12:24   #14
Kirais Kirais is offline Italy
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Quote:
DMC Devil May Cry
the game seems quite similiar to the original DMC as gameplay, but I see a serious issue about the graphic. I think that allowing Ninja theory using Mt framework would have been a usefull decision. actually I don't see satisfying graphics in this game.

Quote:
Resident Evil Revelations
very nice. the game works like a traditional resident evil, claustrophobic locations and exploration helps creating the right atmosphere and tension you expect from a Re game. I'm looking forward to this game hoping it will be released also on Ps-vita.

Quote:
Resident Evil Operation Raccoon City
what was shown at the E3 confirmed my interest about this game. The game recreates Raccon city on a wider scale and let you interact in a massive zombie attack. Something between resident evil and left4dead, I like it.

Quote:
Dragon's Dogma
same feeling as after Captivate 2k11. the game seems good, with very nice graphics and enjoyable but it still misses something that makes it interesting like all Capcom games usually are. It resemble too much a classic fantasy game. With tons of games like this on the market I need something else to make me desire this game.

Quote:
Asura's Wrath
as I said, a successor to God Hand. the graphics is quite good for a game with so much characters on screen at the same time. I like very much the setting: original and intriguing. Something new and original. I'm very interested in games like this instead than Dragon Dogma that are too much classic.

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Street Fighter X Tekken
again nothing that changed my mind after Captivate. The game seems good and well balanced, I liked a lot the introduction of exclusive characters like Cole from Infamous. I hope x360 will get also an exclusive character. I always trust Ono-san with fighting games, he never disappointed me.

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Street Fighter III: Third Strike Online Edition
amazing. I'm a huge fan of fighting games and the third strike was a serious missing on live/psn.
I've appreciated ggpo client and support for youtube client. Good work.

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Dead Rising 2 Off The Record
I'm not a huge fan of Dead Rising so I don't know how react to this title. I guess it's fine, a good "more of the same" for budget price will make fans happy I think.

Last edited by Kirais; 15-06-11 at 12:26..
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Old 16-06-11, 19:43   #15
Ryu Kazama Ryu Kazama is offline United Kingdom
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DMC Devil May Cry:

Still not a lot to go with. Visually it looks very reminiscent of DMC2 which isn't really a great thing. The gameplay itself looks (don't get why Cortez is on about "feel" when you can't play it...) very DMC2 like as well. Hard to describe but the general attacks were a lot more rigid in flow compared to 3/4.

Of course I'd rather have a standard Dante we all recognise and I still disagree with another origin story despite there being enough material elsewhere to fill (even loosely) who he is, where he came from etc. Adding it so he was a moody guy before just seems like it's trying too hard to add story at that moment in his life even though it's not really needed. Heck, there's a gap between 1 and 4 of about 10+ years! His teen years are a lot easier to imagine and understand, he was only 19 in 3. Not very old at all. I don't really need to know what he did or what cereal he ate when he was 12....that's how I am feeling now, actually - like I am being told every little thing he did...

Ultimately there's a long way to go and it's still very early days.

Oh, monster designs were poor to say the least. Bringing back Shadows from DMC1 in their original form (added abilities if doable but do NOT change their elegant designs!) would be amazing... Final demon looked like Mundus Blob though, so that was interesting to see. A link perhaps?


Asura's Wrath:

I only saw the trailer and I quite liked it. It looks very interesting but from what's been mentioned of QTEs, that really turns me off a bit. My first proper experience with them were in Shenmue. I wasn't a big fan of it then and I am less so now (Shenmue I still enjoyed it as some things were thrilling). It dampens any game quite a bit and well, during cutscenes (e.g. how Bayonetta did it), I want watch the cutscene and take a sip of my drink, not suddenly die because I didn't realise! Some QTEs, fine. Too many? No thank you.


Street Fighter X Tekken:

Very grimey and dirty looking. This can easily be changed but I highly doubt it (except for PC possibly). Surprisingly, I haven't seen a lot of match videos of it lately but generally the gameplay looks a little odd. Perhaps that's because it's using SFIV's looks with gameplay that is more VS looking, I don't know.


Street Fighter III: Third Strike Online Edition:

Music in the trailer was really cool! Quite frankly just the game with good online was enough. The rest is a bonus. It's a shame there are no balance changes but with no budget and the pro's ending up with a different game, I understand. I wish great success for this. It deserves it!
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Old 17-06-11, 03:34   #16
CaptainCortez CaptainCortez is offline United Kingdom
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Haha, because "feel" comes in a lot of different variations.

A game can feel like something without you needing to play it. You can go by visuals and all of the little details, such as character animation, combat, over the top scenes, music, presentation.

It was all there and genuinely feels comparable to a DmC game.

It just needs to make the transition from feeling like a DMC game, to actually becoming a proper DMC game, but it's headed in the right direction.

I really don't mean to come across as being rude, but you have to really think outside of the box when comparing things.

Metal Gear Solid 3 felt like a Metal Gear Solid game when we only saw the first bit of promotional material. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen felt like a Transformers movie when we only saw a very cut up trailer.

It's just what it represents. Everything that makes it what it is (the DNA) should be taken note of and examined. You can then start to compare things, and the more information that comes out, will only fuel your previous comparisons until you actually get somewhere and understand things properly.

It felt like DMC, but it isn't quite DMC.

Hopefully that's explained things a little better?

I hate explaining things at times because it can put me across as arrogant and nasty when all I'm doing is trying to explain why I feel that way, so please don't be offended mate. I just hope it's helped in some way.

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Old 17-06-11, 16:06   #17
Ryu Kazama Ryu Kazama is offline United Kingdom
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Ah don't worry. After I posted that I got what you meant.
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Old 21-06-11, 06:56   #18
CaptainCortez CaptainCortez is offline United Kingdom
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Lol, alright man. No probs.
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