View Full Version : re: Code of Conduct on "Cheats"
Posting cheats is an instant perma ban?
Seriously? :eek:
Member_of_STARS
19-03-09, 16:11
Thats what I was thinking aswell. Theres some pretty damn harsh (and even stupid) stuff thrown in. One of which is content which one finds by unlocking (hacking) files. I can understand if you dont want the Demo or preview files to be hacked, but content you own a licence to? And an instant permanent ban at that?
Someones getting paranoid.
I don't know the facts, but I'm assuming cheat codes mainly exist so developers can sell them to magazines and websites. This industry has watered down massively since the coming of the internet, but back in the 90's/early 00's, there were thick books filled with just cheat codes. No idea what that's like in this day and age, but I'm sure a lot of developers have found some way to make a profit on it.
So yeah, by just randomly posting cheat codes on websites, you'd be taking away their profit. And while I don't think they can stop places that just give them out for free (no idea what the legal mumbo-jumbo is, just assuming), there's no-one stopping them to prohibit posting them on their forums.
I have to say though, an instant and permanent ban is pretty harsh. Especially considering a lot of people just assume it's okay.
I don't know the facts, but I'm assuming cheat codes mainly exist so developers can sell them to magazines and websites.
Nah, I doubt they've ever sold cheat codes.
So yeah, by just randomly posting cheat codes on websites, you'd be taking away their profit. And while I don't think they can stop places that just give them out for free (no idea what the legal mumbo-jumbo is, just assuming), there's no-one stopping them to prohibit posting them on their forums.
Only thing I can think of is that they don't want anyone cutting in on their revenue from the official guidebook. However, that doesn't really make a lot of sense as they'd easily be able to target sites like gamefaqs. And, if this perma ban is true, look how many people on these very forums are going to get banned due to helping out users with strategy in various RE5 posts. :/
I can only imagine, and hope, that the wording of "cheats" was a mistake on whoever wrote the code.
Damn, hacking has suddenly become illegal? :eek:
And, if this perma ban is true, look how many people on these very forums are
I doubt they meant gameplay hints and strategy. When I think of cheats, I think of secret words I enter in some screen to unlock gigantic heads, or the ability to become immortal.
Thats what I was thinking aswell. Theres some pretty damn harsh (and even stupid) stuff thrown in. One of which is content which one finds by unlocking (hacking) files. I can understand if you dont want the Demo or preview files to be hacked, but content you own a licence to? And an instant permanent ban at that?
Someones getting paranoid.
Even when you buy the disk the data on it still belongs to the developer so if they lock it you're not allowed access to it. :rolleyes:
I doubt they meant gameplay hints and strategy. When I think of cheats, I think of secret words I enter in some screen to unlock gigantic heads, or the ability to become immortal.
It's pretty much the only context they have to apply; so it's either that, or, I hope, a mistake.
Ten has replied but being cute :p Can I get serious answer please?
note: this topic is about cheats, not hacking which is illegal.
I doubt they meant gameplay hints and strategy. When I think of cheats, I think of secret words I enter in some screen to unlock gigantic heads, or the ability to become immortal.
When they say cheats they mean game altering that isn't built into the game.
Even when you buy the disk the data on it still belongs to the developer so if they lock it you're not allowed access to it. :rolleyes:
Fun story I heard on 'Listen Up' that applies to American law, not sure how it's like here in Europe. But in the US, you only own the right to play the game, nothing else.
I doubt they meant gameplay hints and strategy. When I think of cheats, I think of secret words I enter in some screen to unlock gigantic heads, or the ability to become immortal.
That's the idea I have of cheats, "for infinite ammo press L1+R1+X+[]" etc...
That was included in the game by the developer, so I get :confused: if we aren't allowed to discuss those...
There is also another idea, for example "how to get outside the map to kill others unfairly", etc, I believe that's the kind of cheats not allowed in the forum.
That's the idea I have of cheats, "for infinite ammo press L1+R1+X+[]" etc...
That was included in the game by the developer, so I get :confused: if we aren't allowed to discuss those...
Quite, exactly the point. Again, hopefully it was just wrongful syntax and that they meant "cheat hacks" programs and the such.
Member_of_STARS
19-03-09, 17:02
Damn, hacking has suddenly become illegal? :eek:
Major difference between hacking and cracking. Then theres modding, "fair use".
Opening the files may breach the TOS, if its specified.
But permanently banning people for it? Thats either paranoid or silly.
-
You should also differenciate between "exploits", "cheats" and "hacks" or "cheating software" like auto-taskers or trainers.
Fun story I heard on 'Listen Up' that applies to American law, not sure how it's like here in Europe. But in the US, you only own the right to play the game, nothing else.
Yes, that's the principle of software copyright.
So, Member_of_STARS, hacking software you purchase is still illegal.
But permanently banning people for it? Thats either paranoid or silly.
Do you realise that you signed to them just a couple of weeks ago, right? You're a free being, don't sign up to/buy anything you don't like. Anything else to complain about today?
Okay ... seriously ... are the staff just intentionally not answering my topic question?? :mad: All I want is an answer on what we can and can't post regarding cheats. (this topic isn't about hacks!)
Member_of_STARS
19-03-09, 17:24
Fun story I heard on 'Listen Up' that applies to American law, not sure how it's like here in Europe. But in the US, you only own the right to play the game, nothing else.
This is how it works, but the whole idea was to prohibit competitors from tampering with your software and provide yourself with a way of suing for damages if your work was used without your consent. "Fair use", although vague in itsselt, somewhat protects those that use software for nonprofit by giving some freedom in using software without asking for the owners permission.
Do you realise that you signed to them just a couple of weeks ago, right? You're a free being, don't sign up to/buy anything you don't like. Anything else to complain about today?
Are we grumpy about being unable to calm down the DLC debacle or just tired of being questioned?
There have been a few questions raised and instead of answering them, justifying the choices, you take a defensive stance. There are valid concerns, dont be putting them down just because you cant justify some of the changes. And no, I didnt read the ROC, none of us did, but some of us did after they were renewed on the forums. And some of these new rules are silly.
And no, I didnt read the ROC, none of us did, but some of us did after they were renewed on the forums.
It's Capcom's house, they get to set the rules. We are just guests here, and have to mind our manners.
Why am I the only one, staff and users alike, trying to keep on topic here? This is about POSTING CHEATS, not the hacking, viruses or malicious code stuff. I'm asking a simple question as some of us have posted cheats and guides to other users the last week, and Im wondering if we're going to get in trouble for it. Instead of answers, I've been brushed off twice and now I'm beginning to take the hint that it's because im blacklisted due to having problems with the DLC. This isn't any way to treat community members - I've been here sin Jan 06 and this is the first kind of stuff like this I've seen. :/ If Im going to be continually insulted (for the 4th time this week), lock or delete this topic please, I can't do it myself.
Nabil Mishima
19-03-09, 18:17
We're not allowed to post cheats here? OK then........
thezombiemessia
19-03-09, 20:50
I'd also like to get an answer to Parjay's initial question/s.
What does this forum consider to be cheats? Has it been worded wrong?
Can I talk about/post about/discuss things such as Cheats that the developers have put into the game?
Can I talk about cheats such as things like Xploder and Action Replay?
Me too.
I assumed that things like unlockables and cheat-codes (built in the game, like up, down,left right etc.) would be accepted, whereas things like data from hacked disc files would not be, but Action Replay and Xploder really draw a line in between on that.
Parjay, "cheat" refers to hacks - and it's in fact mentioned in the hacks section. L1+X is not an illegal cheat.
Are we grumpy about being unable to calm down the DLC debacle or just tired of being questioned?
More unchallenged than grumpy. DLC debacle? Three people makes a crowd? :wave: The DLC debacle didn't happen so now it's rules time.
There have been a few questions raised and instead of answering them, justifying the choices, you take a defensive stance.
I was hoping to see some reasoning rather than having to do more spoon feeding. I was amused, Member_of_STARS, not defensive. I'm not quite the nervous, dictatorial, reduced brain cells count, dull piece of work you'd like me to be :)
And no, I didnt read the ROC, none of us did
You're kidding me. Never a good idea, next time I do an update I might include a clause on your soul. Have you really spoken to everybody and they all admitted they hadn't read them?
Parjay, "cheat" refers to hacks
Thankyou, very much! :)
and it's in fact mentioned in the hacks section. L1+X is not an illegal cheat.Can I suggest it's edited? Actually, it's not in a "hack section" but rather a section called "Posting Cheats, Hacks, Trojan Horses or Malicious Programs" Obviously, since they are delineated by commas, and "hacks" is mentioned anyhow (why mention it twice if it cheats means hacks?) - perhaps that line should be copy edited to make it clear to folks.
Thanks again and sorry!
No, Parjay, I won't change it as some actions on the code are commonly known as cheats rather than hacks. May I remind you that we don't use bots or code for banning, do you really have no trust whatsoever on the mods and admin? Pretty depressing.
..........huh? I don't understand where the whole mod/admin thing is coming from... All im asking is to make the cheats thing clear as, proved in this discussion, it's not very clear for most of us - or we wouldn't be having this discussion. This is nothing on admin or mods abilities, who all are doing an awesome job, so lets not pull things out where the don't exist!!
Anyhow, as TZM asked (and since you noted above that some cheats alter code) does that mean no talk of
Can I talk about cheats such as things like Xploder and Action Replay?
since those things alter game code for cheats etc.
This has all to do with admins and mods, since it's them doing the banning and every case is evaluated carefully before making decisions. Rules published or not hacks and references to hacks are really a no brainer for an admin, still when that happened here you didn't see any bans, because of the circumstances. Common sense should be the only rule but since there isn't much (especially on the interweb) rules are in place and they are extensive enough to cover most cases.
We are just guests here
But...but you're the host :shocked:
:fear:
I'm so funny :p
Yeh, I understand all that Ten, but I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. All we're talking, and asking, is the meaning of cheats to be cleared up so we, the user, can be comfortable in knowing what we can post. I'm not sure why we have to drag this out so long :P you're going off into the explainations of mods and admins I'm sure most of us already know, when we just want a clear yes/no you can talk about this/that :P
I mean all this could have been cleared up on page one with "guys you can post the usual gamepad codes and guides, but you cant post cheat programs or action replay codes and of course the other hacks, malicious code and virus etc". and here we are on page 3 ...
I feel like blowing my brains out right about now :P
I'm on the sofa enjoying my drink, you're making the fuss :D
If I answer I make a mountain, if I don't I'm weaseling away. Can I have guidelines, please :p
....im...what??
Im not making a fuss, I'm asking a question as a user to the mods/admin. But Ten, you didn't answer, you simply went off on some sort of "TRUST THE ADMINS FOOL" line ... there are other users here asking the same question I am ... yet ... it seems like we're being trolled by the capcom staff :S
seriously, ive been coridial as possible but this is getting absurb, it's like you're purposely trying to annoy me into leaving - what way is this to run a community when im only asking a simple little question????? You guys posted rules, im (and other users) are asking for a clarification on one part ... that's all.
im honestly flabbergasted.
I didn't answer? I must have missed the question somehow, I thought it was on the cheats and I thought my answer was
"cheat" refers to hacks - and it's in fact mentioned in the hacks section. L1+X is not an illegal cheat.
Can you kindly point me to the question I dismissed?
Sure, indeed you answered that one (..after 3 pages:P) and I thanked you. After that though I asked for clarification on what TZM asked:
http://capcom-europe.com/forum/showpost.php?p=109631&postcount=20
http://capcom-europe.com/forum/showpost.php?p=109681&postcount=25
I know, I know these silly little "should-be-common-sense" questions are annoying, but we'd appreciate an answer for us little-people.
Anything that alters code as delivered by the publisher is a hack/cheat. The more you take it to details, the less flexibility we'll have and the more we'll have to apply rules. Sometimes it'd be wiser to contact a mod before posting when in doubt instead of forcing detailed clarification.
My pleasure. Apologies if I can't keep up with the posting, indeed the answer was on page 3 but in my defence I answered in my third post. I had some problems with your first post as it didn't make clear that the issue was on the word cheat. Occasionally I indulge in humour, something I'm very guilty of even when I know I shouldn't. A weakness I'll correct, I promise.
My pleasure. Apologies if I can't keep up with the posting, indeed the answer was on page 3 but in my defence I answered in my third post. I had some problems with your first post as it didn't make clear that the issue was on the word cheat. Occasionally I indulge in humour, something I'm very guilty of even when I know I shouldn't. A weakness I'll correct, I promise.
No, no it's not even your working hours you don't need to apologize about not keeping up. Although I did say through the topic that the topic was about cheats and that hacks where wrong and shouldn't be talked about, I should have said it clearly in the first post - so sorry!:cry:
Member_of_STARS
20-03-09, 02:01
More unchallenged than grumpy. DLC debacle? Three people makes a crowd? :wave: The DLC debacle didn't happen so now it's rules time.
Theres a lot more than 3 ;)
I was hoping to see some reasoning rather than having to do more spoon feeding. I was amused, Member_of_STARS, not defensive. I'm not quite the nervous, dictatorial, reduced brain cells count, dull piece of work you'd like me to be :)
The problem is that at first glance the rules say that "ok boi, you step over this fine line here, you be bant", and thats considering discussion which wouldnt harm CAPCOM directly or indirectly. Things like modding their games (sweet Jesus, are they still in the 1980s?), instant ban. Things ike using ***** to cover up cursewords but getting the point across, instant ban. Discussing trainers (pieces of software that give your Single Player experience some creative freedom like unlimited ammo, all weapons, the works), instant ban. Theres a permanent or temporary ban for everything and my first reaction was- What the Duck?
I get an odd feeling Ive already said this, but just in case. I remember our discussion on where you told me that theres no censorship at CE and theres a lot of freedom in discussion here. This contradicts it. Then theres the hacked Demo content thing, which is probably the reason why discussions on hacked files is prohibited with a permanent ban as a punishment. It seems like all of these rules here and NOT for the enjoyement of the community, but to serve CAPCOMs interests. Quite a contradiction with the introductory.
Any forum you go to, is governed by common sense. And on multiplayer forums, topics like cheats and hacks are on the discussion table because they increase peoples awareness of them, provide information and not on how multiplayer hacks work, but on how to detect them and combat them. Server administration is all about detection, prevention and reaction. And here we are, where simple discussion of altering the ini files on your RE4 PC version, to get unlimited ammunition for all games, will give you a permanent ban. Or, if you do make a distinction, noone knows where.
But...but you're the host :shocked:
:fear:
I'm so funny :p
And now I'm totally confused! :confused:
The problem is that at first glance the rules say that
The problem is that Capcom have to protect themselves - this is a public forum and there are rules and laws that apply outside of Capcom's control (that Capcom is bound to probably more than you are). As a result of this, I suspect Capcom are painting a broad brush *in case* they need to apply it, not because they intend to use it automatically whenever it could be. You have been warned about the forms of conduct that are considered unsuitable and the possible repercussions - if you choose to sail close to that very visible line, then you do so at your own risk.
Theres a lot more than 3 ;)
Yes, 4 :D
James Mitchell
20-03-09, 09:53
I get an odd feeling Ive already said this, but just in case. I remember our discussion on where you told me that theres no censorship at CE and theres a lot of freedom in discussion here. This contradicts it. Then theres the hacked Demo content thing, which is probably the reason why discussions on hacked files is prohibited with a permanent ban as a punishment. It seems like all of these rules here and NOT for the enjoyement of the community, but to serve CAPCOMs interests. Quite a contradiction with the introductory.
In regards to the demo, the code that makes up the game is not yours nor is it anyone elses who was responsible for the hacking of the demo. The content itself is owned 100% by Capcom, and thus it is not any of you or anyone else's business to go "snooping" through the data. You purchase a license to use the game and play it, not the game itself or it's data.
Member_of_STARS
20-03-09, 12:23
Yes, 4 :D
:mad:
In regards to the demo, the code that makes up the game is not yours nor is it anyone elses who was responsible for the hacking of the demo.
Common sense. Were not talking about distribution of the software.
The content itself is owned 100% by Capcom, and thus it is not any of you or anyone else's business to go "snooping" through the data. You purchase a license to use the game and play it, not the game itself or it's data.
Apart from this being ridiculously ignorant and borderline stupid, you do realize that without that "snooping", theres a large number of videogame studios and videogames that would never have existed? So how about you cut that brownnosing for a second.
-
Ive taken some time to dissect the EULA and a few laws regarding software licensing, modding and some other technical aspects. CAPCOM specifically forbids using their content in any way (including modding), not for your own, not for distributional purposes (this part is actually in most games EULAs, it seems). It also forbids decompiling, although copyright laws (and DMCA) do give a few cases where it is allowed.
Cant remember the link to the topic, but in a debate with a lawyer, it came out that the result of breaching the EULA may even lead to criminal action.
Cant verify that.
Bottomline
This (http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/1365/4re4ma4.jpg)
May lead to
this (http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/data-loss-ceos-should-go-to-jail.jpg)
This is certainly interesting, Im going to dig around more, as its certainly intriguing that the games Ive enjoyed the most are technically illegal.
James Mitchell
20-03-09, 13:43
Infraction Issued. This is starting to get ridiculous. You have a huge choice of language but you choose to use insults and malicious wording. If you don't like this I think you should consider your stay here.
You have accepted the Code of Conduct by posting here. If you want the administrators to remove you account because you don't agree (even though you've basically said you already have) then I suggest you do.
You beat me, James. I was busy slapping him for something else.
Member_of_STARS, you've finished your chances. One more display of your attitude and we'll have to depart paths.
Member_of_STARS
20-03-09, 13:56
This is ridiculous. Its as if common sense doesnt exist here anymore. If you post in a provocative manner, I dont think you should expect rainbows and bunnies. 556, your second response pushes it even further. Just because I disagree with the rules doesnt mean I wont/cant obey them, but I guess that can also be ignored, even though its... common sense?
This is a joke.
I honestly doubt anyone minds you having criticism. But when you start saying people are 'brownnosing' and start calling people "ridiculously ignorant and borderline stupid", you're not discussing anymore - you're just insulting people.
That, and I wouldn't be surprised if you ironically broke some rules with that.
This is ridiculous. Its as if common sense doesnt exist here anymore. If you post in a provocative manner, I dont think you should expect rainbows and bunnies. 556, your second response pushes it even further. Just because I disagree with the rules doesnt mean I wont/cant obey them, but I guess that can also be ignored, even though its... common sense?
This is a joke.
*cough*
Apart from this being ridiculously ignorant and borderline stupid, you do realize that without that "snooping", theres a large number of videogame studios and videogames that would never have existed? So how about you cut that brownnosing for a second.
Flaming, Harassing or Defamatory
Explicit and masked language and/or links to material containing such language or images that:
• Insultingly refer to other forum members, players, Capcom and Capcom employees or groups of people either in the public forums or by private messaging
Which part do you need me to explain? I can do a nice compilation of all your history, if you wish.
Member_of_STARS
20-03-09, 14:07
Which part do you need me to explain? I can do a nice compilation of all your history, if you wish.
Please do, I cant wait.
I dont think one should expect polite return to condescending attitude/posts. And while the choice of words could have been less insulting, it wouldnt have mattered the least, as the infraction you gave me served as proof that its not about the words, its about the impression the staff gets, no matter the context.
Like I said, this is a joke. But I will get along with the program.
James Mitchell
20-03-09, 14:09
its about the impression the staff gets, no matter the context.
Most of our decisions are made by committee or at least are peer-reviewed, for what it's worth.
Please do, I cant wait.
I dont think one should expect polite return to condescending attitude/posts. And while the choice of words could have been less insulting, it wouldnt have mattered the least, as the infraction you gave me served as proof that its not about the words, its about the impression the staff gets, no matter the context.
Like I said, this is a joke. But I will get along with the program.
Member_of_STARS, unfortunately you have far more time to post in a forum you dislike than I have to do my job, despite putting 12 hours a day. Lucky you!
Considering that every post you made was either condescending, patronising or insulting towards me and others I don't know where we'd be If I went by your logic. You're not too sutle either, you should focus to hone your skills. But I must admit that I got some laughs, some of them where beyond belief.
The impression we get is the one you give, just as simple as that *shrugs*
Member_of_STARS
20-03-09, 14:47
Ahem... seriously...
Member_of_STARS, unfortunately you have far more time to post in a forum you dislike than I have to do my job, despite putting 12 hours a day. Lucky you!
Our post counts beg to differ.
As for the other part, I can assure you that its been a fun week for me aswell, not to mention, educational.
Ahem... seriously...
Our post counts beg to differ.
Rabbits and headlights...
Member_of_STARS, this is my job, remember? This is your...hobby? Right? Still beyond me how anybody would invest their time in something they hate as a hobby.
lol irresistible force vs immovable object.
Also Tenebra why don't you have an avatar yet?
lol irresistible force vs immovable object.
Also Tenebra why don't you have an avatar yet?
Probably because if you were to gaze upon her avatar it would be the last thing you ever saw.... ;)
lol irresistible force vs immovable object.
Also Tenebra why don't you have an avatar yet?
She can't find a slegde hammer big enough;)
She can't find a slegde hammer big enough;)
I'm starting to question if this is actually a safe place to be. I've got fragile bones ;_;
Draz is always right. I'm protecting you.
*puts on sunglasses*
I'm prepared for anything now. :)