View Full Version : How to get into the games industry - updated 3rd May
Electric Leo
17-03-09, 22:33
In the last couple of months I've recieved quite a few requests for help on getting into the games industry. Some are specifically for games PR, some are more general. So I thought I'd make a thread about it, and try my best to give some advice. A few disclaimers first -
I only really know about my route into the games industry, my friends' routes and about the business side of it (publishing and all aspects relating to it). If you're interested in games development, I really have no idea beyond some broad advice that applies to the games industry in general. I suspect that the modding scene isn't a bad place to get known, but I really couldn't tell you for sure.
The advice I will give is designed to provide some insight into some potential options, but by no means covers all the options.
I will not do this in one post, or one day. Or even one week. But I will keep adding detail in whenever I get a chance.
Let's start with the structure of what I'll talk about. Please feel free to request different information than I'm going to give, or tell me that what I'm telling you is useless. Also! If you are in the industry yourself reading this, please feel free to chip in.
1. Leo's road into the games industry, and why none of his advice matters.
2. Is working in the games industry just playing Street Fighter all day?
3. What should I study? And do I even need a degree?
4. Creating my CV.
5. I really, really love games! What kind of career should I aim for?
6. ?
Electric Leo
17-03-09, 22:34
1. Leo's road into the games industry, and why none of his advice matters.
I got into the games industry about four and a half years ago. My first job was an entry level position at Barrington Harvey, a PR agency. I had no relative qualifications and zero relative work experience. Which is the polar opposite of what you should be aiming for. What I did have was a few thousand posts on the original Edge form and a circle of friends that included a couple of games journalists.
I had got the job because I knew one of the Directors at Barrington Harvey through the old Edge forum. I asked him if I could go work for him, he said no, I asked until he said he'd talk to me. Which took a couple of weeks of semi-relentless emails. We were already internet chums, so it wasn't too hard to get him to see me to talk about it. We met, we talked and I got out of hairdressing and into games PR.
When I write it like that, it sounds like a fairytale. Well, I think it does. And that's because I was incredibly LUCKY. Lucky to know Simon, lucky that he was looking for someone, lucky that I was terrible enough at hairdressing to have enough time to spend posting on the forum all day about my Top 10 Dreamcast Games. Almost everything that has happened to me to bring me to where I am today is through luck, and the good grace of those around me. And since 'being lucky' is not really a practical strategy, I will not be recommending a similar route. Instead we'll go for some more practical advice.
Electric Leo
17-03-09, 22:34
2. Is working in the games industry just playing Street Fighter all day?
Man, I wish. It's certainly true that I've been playing Street Fighter IV almost every day since we got the machines in the office about six months ago, but that's during lunch breaks and after office hours. Assuming that there's any time left in the day, that is. Playing games in general is pretty hard to find time for during the day. Even games that we're supposed to know inside out. Most of it has to be done in our spare time if we really want to get to know what we're working on. And we usually do.
The sad fact it, and this is certainly true for most games professionals I know, we have an awful lot of games, an awful lot of work to do and not an awful lot of time to spend playing them. If we're lucky we'll get some build notes from the developers, but the only guys who really get to play a lot of games are the guys in QA that test them. And that's maybe the hardest job in the industry (though anecdotally not a bad way into development, if it doesn't break you and leave you dead in the gutter). But I don't know much about QA bar that it often doesn't pay well, it's crazy hours and you play the games when they're broken and rubbish, not when they're finished and amazing. Imagine your favourite film. Now imagine watching it in sections, over and over, with the colour missing, or the picture flickering in and out, or the dubbing wrong, or the voices in a language you don't understand. Imagine you have to watch it 1000 times and log each and every error. Then imagine how much you'll love that film at the end of the process. That's, as far as I can tell, games testing.
More generally, working in the games industry means working very hard, and putting in a lot of hours, regardless of what role you have. I don't think there's many publishers in the UK with empty offices at 6pm. Or even 7pm. You'll also work weekends quite often, whether it's to attend an event or just to keep up with what's going on. So it's hard. Be prepared for that.
But what about the good stuff? Well, it's often possible to get hold of the games you love a touch earlier. Which isn't maybe worth a lifetime of subserviance to The Man, but is definitely Really Nice. And you generally get access to every game that's released, depending on what job you're doing and for who. It does mean your pile of games labelled To Play is full of things you'll never get to, despite having a passing interest in, but that's not a bad thing. And you do get to play the games when they're *nearly* finished. Which in some cases is the most incredible thing ever.
My main thought on this is simple - if you really love playing games and want a career doing just that, then there are not many options available to you. The people who play the most games, get to see the most games and spend the most time playing in their working life are the journalists. How to get into games journalism has been covered extensively elsewhere, so we don't need to get into that here (unless someone asks), but I think the general concensus there is that you should become a games journalist is you love writing as much as you love gaming. I think if you really want to spend most of your life playing games, you should go for a job that pays really well, doesn't involve a lot of time in the office and then you can afford to stay at home and play whatever you like, whenever you like. When you find that job, let me know - I'll send you my CV :)
Electric Leo
17-03-09, 22:35
3. What should I study? And do I even need a degree?
First of all, let's discount all games development degrees. That gets political, and also we're not dealing with games development as I know nothing about that. Let's talk about our office in particular. A quick poll of the office shows that about nine tenths of our staff have a degree. Of those, about half have a degree relative to what they're doing. Aside from a marketing/business degree, the most popular choice seems to be neuro science. Which worries me, now that I know it, and definitely isn't applicable. Those of us without a degree are in either extremely junior positions or are not doing as well at this stage in their life as they could be, as they had to come in at lower positions and work their way up. Sorry if you're reading this and are one of the few Capcom staff who don't have a degree! But it's true. So I guess what I need to impress upon you the most is, you need to stay in school. It doesn't seem to matter too much what you study, as long as you study. I am quite sure that it's better to do some sort of business/marketing degree, though, but if you're already two years through a degree in archaeology then that doesn't mean you need to rule out a career in the games industry.
What if you're at school and are choosing your GCSEs? Well, I know that the thing I look for the most in the interview process, and certainly when sorting through CVs, is a strong understanding of English. That's an essential skill for any public relations professional, and I think any profession that involves words. Are you creating reports? Are you approving ads? Are you scanning manuals for errors? They all require basic English skills. Granted, your ability to be able to analyse Romeo and Juliet might not be so useful in the workplace, but your understanding of where an apostrophe should be most certainly will be. I don't think that's useful information, since English and Maths are compulsory, but next time you're doing incredibly boring homework involving the correct placement of commas, bear in mind that if you don't know the rules for that, you won't get past CV stage with anyone who is obsessive with grammar. Which is every PR I know. So knuckle down on the boring stuff. What isn't going to be any use for certain is Physical Education. Or Technical Studies (in my day that was what woodwork/metalwork classes were called). Art is also probably not going to be much use, though a high Art grade is certainly preferable to a high PE grade.
So, let's summarise. Some things are obvious. If you want to go into development, I'm sure one of the development degrees is going to be at least not terrible. I have heard Dundee is a good place to do that sort of thing, but I really don't know. If you want to go into the business side of things (usually better pay and better hours, and that means more games to play and more time to play them) then you should obviously do something business-orientated. If you want to go into marketing, aim for a marketing degree. If you are choosing your A Levels or GCSEs, choose subjects relevant to the degree you want to do. I think that's all quite common sense, though, so it's probably not very useful. What is useful to know is, you do actually benefit quite a bit from getting good results at school if you want to forge a successful career in the games industry. And though there are routes into the games industry that don't involve academic excellence, you can still take these routes with good grades. But without them, your options are limited. More interestingly, though, anecdotal evidence suggests that it's not too important which degree you go for, as long as it's roughly related. It's maybe as simple as being able to say "hi! I am very intelligent and hard working, and therefore would be an excellent addition to your team" when you apply. Again, this should be common sense, but many of the requests I've had for advice have started with "I want to leave school and join the games industry." Don't! Kids, stay in school! And care about what you're doing! That's the most important thing. A good grade is proof of a strong work ethic, intelligence and perseverance. Three brilliant attributes that will stand you in good stead as you try to score your dream job. And no degree will give you the experience you need to be able to do the job you end up doing, only doing that job will. And games companies will give you the chance to learn if we think you can do the job. And academic results is one such way to reassure us.
Electric Leo
17-03-09, 22:35
4. Creating my CV.
There's a famous anecdote in which an employer has a huge stack of CVs. He's trying to decide how to whittle them down and throws half of them in the bin, declaring "I don't hire unlucky people." It's terribly unjust, but I can imagine it happening. Reducing the amount of applicants to a manageable amount for a day or three of interviews when you have maybe 1000 CVs means if your CV is more than two pages long, or looks scrappy, or uses the wrong font then the chances are it'll end up in the bin with the other 500 unlucky people. Here's some tips to ensure your CV doesn't end up in the bin.
DISCLAIMER! Although I have already stated this, I'll say it again now - this advice is based on my experience, my preferences and following my advice will likely help you if you're applying to work for me, but perhaps not if you're trying for a role at, say, Ubisoft. Or maybe it will, it depends on who's whittling down the CVs.
Let's talk layout. Are you using Comic Sans as your font because you want to show your humorous side? BIN. Is your font so small the page looks like a dictionary page, or the font so large it looks like a Mister Men book? BIN. Is it any colour other than black? BIN. Is it not formatted to be printed out onto A4? BIN. Does it have spelling mistakes? BIN. Does it open with poor grades? BIN.
As you can see, it's quite easy to end up in the bin. Perhaps (hopefully) you read all of those and snickered to yourself, "who wouldn't at least run their CV through a spell checker or read it over three times before they submitted it?" Exactly. This document can change your life. Short of some sort of legal document that keeps you out of jail (BIN) no piece of paper will have a greater impact on your life than your CV. So take your time and get everything about it absolutely right. There are an incredible amount of people that want to get into the games industry, if your header reads Curiculm Vitai then your journey ends here.
So how should you structure it? Well, there's no right way (though clearly there are plenty of wrong ways). You obviously have to make your information clear and concise and open with your strengths. I don't mind if you open with your personal details (name, etc) and then move straight into a paragraph about yourself, but the educational requirements for a junior PR position are not particularly high and personality and writing ability are very important in PR, so I would probably value that section of your CV above all else. If you were applying for an accounting position I'd wager you should open with your relevant qualifications and perhaps evidence of your degree in accounting. Choose a layout appropriate for the position, basically.
About that paragraph about yourself. If you're going to tell me that you work well on your own or as part of a team, or that your hobbies include reading, listening to music and watching movies, I think it's safe to say that you've wasted your chance to make any practical use of that paragraph. Unless that person wants a completely safe, uninteresting person for the role, that is. I'm sure our Head of Finance would recoil at the thought of a crazy party-loving sky diver running the Accounts Payable department. Otherwise, that paragraph about yourself is the one chance to show the employer that you have any kind of personality. That said, it's a fine line between finding somebody interesting and hoping you never, ever meet that person, so aim more towards getting an interview rather than hoping your future employer will try to adopt you because you both desperately want to go to the Burning Man festival and prefer the original manga to the Naruto anime.
I think that'll do. If I've missed anything vital feel free to ask and I'll expound. To summarise -
Make it clear and concise.
Two pages max.
Open with your relevant strengths.
Don't use comic sans or any colour other than black.
Don't say you work well in a team and on your own.
And don't be unlucky.
Electric Leo
17-03-09, 22:35
5. I really, really love games! What kind of career should I aim for?
This one has been the toughest one to write, because I've known roughly what I want to say but not really how I want to say it. Recently someone I met at an event approached me with his portfolio and asked for some advice on how to use it to get into the games industry. As we talked I realised that almost everything I said was leading to the same thing - don't try to get into the games industry.
Just because you love games doesn't mean you have to base your career around them. If you loved food you probably wouldn't be breaking your back to work in a restaurant in just about any position just to be closer to the kitchen. So why would you take a decision as important as what you're going to do for the rest of your life TO EARN MONEY and then base it on your hobby? You might love gaming more than anything else in the world, but if you choose a career that has nothing to do with games, it doesn't mean you'll be missing out on anything. If anything, the chances are you'll get to play even more games, because there aren't many jobs in the games industry that don't involve hideously long hours for not much money. So do yourself a favour and think bigger.
Think about what you're good at. And I don't mean headshots with the sniper rifle without zooming in. Then, think how you could make an obscene amount of money using that skill and you'll be on a better path than thinking "what menial job can I do to get a job working in the office of a company that makes the games I love."
Working in the games industry isn't some magical fairyland of wonder and non-stop gaming. A games company's office is as dull as any other office. There aren't consoles at every desk. Or usually even any desk. You don't get to see everything early, just a very, very small slice of what's out there. And seeing something before it's finished is the best thing you can do if you want to love that thing less.
If you love games then continue to love games. Play them in your spare time and realise that there's no job you can be doing that involves playing games all day. There's no job that exists that doesn't make you wish you didn't need to get up when your alarm goes off at 6am. And it's easy to end up hating what you initially loved because you have to see it absolutely every day. The games industry is full of bitter people who hate the games they work on, for no reason other than they work on them. And no company has the perfect portfolio of games, you'll have to work on as many Pro Cycling Managers as you will Street Fighter IVs. You don't have to get caught up in that. You don't have to let someone else tell you what you should and shouldn't play.
If gaming is the thing that you love the most in life then there's a pretty good chance that that's because gaming is the thing furthest from things like work and school. And once gaming becomes work, then that dynamic will change. Because nobody likes to work. That's why they have to give you money to do it.
Electric Leo
17-03-09, 22:36
6. ? reservered for whatever this might be
Electric Leo
17-03-09, 22:36
7. One more reserved, just in case.
Member_of_STARS
17-03-09, 23:21
I, for one, cant wait for more stuff.
Finally!:D
I've been waiting for something like this for quite some time now, I appreciate this. :)
I love what I've read so far, and can't wait to see more. ^_^
Lovely read, will be following this.
The people who play the most games, get to see the most games and spend the most time playing in their working life are the journalists.This quote made me grin for studying journalism (I need to stop saying "doing journalism").
(I need to stop saying "doing journalism").
I wouldn't worry about it, it's a parlance of our times. Just like how no-one (seemingly) can pronounce "to" anymore :fear:
heh this would have been useful to me a little while ago but I finnally got me one my 3 dream jobs (or at least i have almost got the job)
and dude... why were you a hairdresser? thats like... not manly at all
What, in the games industry?
What, in the games industry?
nah in the met police, but i was going to try for games industry till i got the offer
nah in the met police, but i was going to try for games industry till i got the offer
That's an unusual set of options... makes me wonder what the 3rd one was.
Ryu Kazama
19-03-09, 23:48
Hair dresser? Really, Leo? Really!? I need proof. I really do!
thezombiemessia
20-03-09, 16:56
This is an excellent topic/subject that should probably be stickied, at least for a little while.
I'm currently studying Journalism myself, and want to also cover PR as an extra pathway during my second and third years.
This will be incredibly helpful in what to look out for, and possibly who to contact or which sorts of companies to contact.
Thanks for this Leo ^_^
Mokkori Man
21-03-09, 13:03
That was really interesting to read! Good job!
I'm currently studying Japanese and wanted to start PR next year. Man, I'd really like to work for Capcom *drool*:D!
Has anybody watched the Making-Of BD of Metal Gear 4 GotP? There was some guy - I think Ryan - who also studied Japanese and who is currently working for Kojima Productions. I envy that guy :cool:!
This is some great stuff Leo, appreciate it. As a recent marketing graduate I'm always looking for tips and hints of getting into the gaming industry. You can't beat hearing someone's own personal experiences.
I wondered if you have any advice regarding the following:
- On applying for internships
- Which UK gaming events are worth attending
I am quite keen on the PR and marketing side of gaming and wonder what is the best way to enter the industry in this field? I would love to gain a few weeks work experience even if it was unpaid. What would be the best way to go about this?
I look forword to the next post,
Matt
As Leo says his route was far from traditional. He didn't even mention he was a Roller Blade instructor for a while either!
We have a wide range of people at Capcom with varying backgrounds - we have MBAs, people that started out as telesales, people that used to work in Game & GameStation, a bio chemistry graduate, people that used to be receptionists, we even have an ex-professional rugby player!
@mjroche
My route was more traditional, more like yours... I studied Business Studies at degree level and got into games by accident, as part of my course we had a placement year where we had to work in industry for a year. I mailed off to anyone I thought would be interesting to work for I literally mailed 100s of companies and every morning I got 100s of "thanks but no thanks" replies. I applied to BMG who offered me an interview for their games division working on a then little known game called GTA... I made some good contacts in my years placement so when I left university I had my old boss call me up and ask me to join her on launching the Sega Dreamcast. Since then I've worked for PlayStation and Capcom.
Getting the break is the hardest thing, but if you're desperate to work in games get your CV out there with a covering letter and don't give up or be put off by knockbacks. I was working in some rubbish temp jobs untill between graduating and joining Sega. As for gaming events, they are useful for getting a name or a contact to speak to, but you're unlikely to get a job on the back of this alone.
I join Leo in the "how on earth did you end up there?" club, but it's a slightly different story. A degree in languages and literature (with an odd twist in mass communication and cultural anthropology), I started working in marketing before completing my studies and have been in all sorts of industries (technology, fashion, publishing and film/music publicity).
I've been playing games since I was 5 and was "dragged" into becoming a forums moderator by a well-known publisher, which eventually offered me a job. I'm one of the unusual examples of entering the industry simply transferring my experience across sectors. Difficult but not impossible :)
@onlyonet and tenebra
Thanks for the advice. It's great to hear that even if your from a non traditional gaming background with the right drive and persistence you can get an opportunity to break into the industry.
Woodlandbunny
25-03-09, 21:30
I'd love to get a job in the Games Industry, so this was really interesting to read. Thank you.
Looking forward to seeing more about it in this thread =]
I know a guy who was offered a job by a games company (I think its was Namco but not 100% sure as he ended up taking a different route) whilst at university doing a games development course
charmed699
26-03-09, 09:58
Haven't said anything yet but would just like to thank the 3 of you for taking the time. To be honest it was an area that I was always interested in getting involved. The Software Engineering course I am on seemed like something that could open up a lot of different job options. Do you guys think videogames would fit under what I am doing?
My main concern, besides getting to 3rd year and being awarded the degree, is the current global crisis. When I start thinking of the future it makes me wonder if there will be even that many jobs in areas I am interested. I know there are always lots of people interviewing for one position, but I imagine it will only get worse. Here is hoping it starts to get better and not like the great depression back in 1931.
@Charmed699
Yeah there is no reason why your degree shouldn't open doors for you in 'the industry' especially in the development side of things and while i'm no economist the Games industry seems a little more recession resistant than others, so there should be jobs out there for graduates come the summer.
Good Luck
Carbonox_Ratchet
26-03-09, 13:41
Great thread. Some really informative advice here.
I've stuck with Art & Design through my education so that will inevitably be my area of specialism if I were to become employed by a company. Especially when I see job advertisements pertaining to game art, and they mention qualifications pertaining to College/Uni in the areas of Fine Art etc. Considering I'm a Fine Artist, that's a massive help. As is the fact that game art will be my thing in Uni.
I'd ask for more advice on this but so far I see that most guidance here pertains to the business side of the industry.
If anyone wants to chime in though (especially Clayonite), it would really be appreciated.
I've perhaps a little more knowledge on the Dev side of things having worked very closely with the likes of Guerrilla, Evolution Studios, Ready At Dawn, Polypony, Square, London Studios in my 12 years on so in games industry.
The art team differs from development team to development team, but they’re normally quite big on any development and are often involved very early on in the games development. Given it's one of the most creative areas of game development, artists play a massive part in realising the vision of the game and will work alongside the writers & Directors at an early stage designing anything and everything from the decor of a house, a characters look style and dress, to great sweeping landscapes. You literally create the vision that people buy into...
At the same time it can be incredibly frustrating also! Imagine having to draw the same character 1000's of times over with very minor changes or having created an amazing piece of artwork the game director tell you that it doesn't match his vision and that’s at the top level. At the lower end you could find yourself designing rubble in the street or working on a game you're not interested in, imagine having to replicate football kits or F1 cars for year after year?
If you're interested in this area a fine art degree can only help as alot of the very early work is traditional sketches on paper, looking at colour palates for the game and research into the ‘feel’ and ‘style’ of the game. Boy do these guys churn out alot of sketches! I remember walking into Guerrillas studios for the first time and seeing every wall of every office covered floor to ceiling in sketches - of rubble strewn cities, weapons, 1000's of different types of characters.
Your qualifications will get you an interview but it's your talent will get you the job. Start building up a portfolio of your work NOW, don’t wait till you’re looking for a job and scrabble around looking for your best pieces. And get as much experience as you can working with the required tools and programmes the likes of Photoshop, Maya, 3DS Max,
Check out the following websites for more info on the Art side of games development
http://www.gamasutra.com/ (http://www.gamasutra.com/)
http://www.game-artist.net/forums/ (http://www.game-artist.net/forums/)
http://www.gignews.com/crosby2.htm
charmed699
27-03-09, 11:17
Thanks for the advice before mate as it certainly makes me feel more confident that I'm spending these 3 years of my life for a positive outcome.
I also love drawing actualy from as long as I remember. I never really went beyong Art and Design GCSE but thats because I could only choose one subject at College/Uni. As you say though I still do a lot of drafts whenever I get a chance for practise. I admit that Im not very good at digital art as I never used a graphics tablet, but really like hand drawings. In fact my uni notes book is full of sketches. :p
Sorry just a quick reflection on my part and hope it's not ruining the topic's helpful messages.
7. One more reserved, just in case.
Got a question for you mate. Is your name Charlie by any chance?
Electric Leo
02-04-09, 12:32
I'm not Charlie :)
I also haven't forgotten about this! The next part is nearly ready. Apologies if anyone needs advice STAT.
charmed699
02-04-09, 15:20
I would certainly appreciate any help in writing a CV as I must be a complete disaster or they think Im under 18 because I never get a call back...
Your not a disaster at all diogo, from my experience of you you are a very polite friendly intelligent articulate guy
Writing effective cv's is hard - I've seen some terrible ones over the years. You've got my email if you need any help, Charmed :)
And JDK is right ;)
Romero's Soldier
03-04-09, 20:15
Looking forward to seeing the finished sections almost as much as the end of my dissertation!
Electric Leo
08-04-09, 16:20
One more! Sorry it's taking so long, I keep getting distracted by Monster Hunter.
I hate to be a pain Leo, but could you edit the title of this topic with every update? im paranoid ill miss something. :-P
Electric Leo
16-04-09, 21:35
Well, there's really only one left, but sure :)
I am recieving some particularly galling application letters at the moment for the intern position I'm advertising in universities. Some of them don't even get my name right! Which is quite unacceptable.
We should compare notes tomorrow, Leo :D
how can they mispell leo tan? thats like only 6 letters! if they mispelled tenebras crazy name then its understandable :P
My name is dead simple, no excuses :cool: The most annoying part is that my surname, which is English, is the one that gets spelt wrong most of the times instead of my first name.
There is an ongoing joke in the office about a meeting with a guy pitching for business and managing to call me 6 different names (all wrong) in half an hour. So now I'm Shakira :yell:
OH SNAP! The Sin master has finnally found ammunition to pay back the evil T's unsinful acts of calling me by the wrong name!
so, take that Shakira!
*cough* remember your ribs *cough* I know where to aim :D
My name is dead simple, no excuses :cool: The most annoying part is that my surname, which is English, is the one that gets spelt wrong most of the times instead of my first name.
There is an ongoing joke in the office about a meeting with a guy pitching for business and managing to call me 6 different names (all wrong) in half an hour. So now I'm Shakira :yell:
I smell a name-change coming up!
[/close hijack] As much as I love hijacking, let's go mess around somewhere else ;)
charmed699
16-04-09, 22:31
Ah!Ah! "Starts thinking of Shakira going off on lots of high pitched Whatever/whenever!" :D
My university never really seems to be much help with any job connections so haven't even heard of your position Leo.There's one of my teacher's that seems to know someone from Sumo but he's very strict, so I never really ask anything, even though he's my tutor! I was going to do work experience next year but can't even get one company so will have to just do 3rd year project now... :p
Thanks for the guide though as it makes some parts about getting a job look so much simpler.
Carbonox_Ratchet
16-04-09, 23:52
Charmed, sometimes it's best to use your initiative and go grab those job connections yourself. Tutors can be tough cookies sometimes. :p
Some of them don't even get my name right! Which is quite unacceptable.
Just send them directly to the recycle bin :D
There is an ongoing joke in the office about a meeting with a guy pitching for business and managing to call me 6 different names (all wrong) in half an hour.
I'm sure it was a funny day for you :whistle:
Electric Leo
18-04-09, 22:51
My university never really seems to be much help with any job connections so haven't even heard of your position Leo.
What's your uni and what are you studying? If you can get me contact details for someone in your placement department I'll make sure I get a notice up there (assuming it's offering a relevant degree).
And when I say get my name wrong, I mean outright wrong. Not Lee Tan or something vaguely understandable, I mean Alexandra or Simon.
I'll be in Captivate all next week so won't be able to write the final bits 'til I come back.
A week of playing Monster Hunter and Street Fighter in the sun *sigh*
;)
I'll be in Captivate all next week so won't be able to write the final bits 'til I come back.
I'll see you there ;)
Thanks for this. I want to be a concept designer (characters) Or A Map Designer or something very creative and very hands on to do with the creation of the game.
It's the dream ;D
Carbonox_Ratchet
12-05-09, 20:49
Hey KonnA, if you're looking for any advice on game art courses, I can provide you with some info as I had an interview at Leicester University for Game Art a week or so ago. ;]
shadow86sk
14-05-09, 11:37
I can Imagen the Gaming world isnt that full of play, if it was no games would be made, if anything I would like to be a beta tester ^^ but thats work too I guess :P
Hey KonnA, if you're looking for any advice on game art courses, I can provide you with some info as I had an interview at Leicester University for Game Art a week or so ago. ;]
And if you need industry crit, feel free to PM me. That goes for anyone, really. :)
shadow86sk
15-05-09, 23:56
since this a topic on how to get to the dream job all gamers dream of I have a quesstion:
well how do you become a beta tester? :D and lets say it it possible to beta test from home? you know can be that some people (me) are in a wheelchair :P that would be intresting to know. I know I had no chance since no Capcom in slovakia but intresting to know :P
I think it's like becoming a beta tester...
You answer to a job advertisement as tester and someone would meet you and valuate you.
I sorta knew the discouragement was coming, what with the overall tone that gave.
I think most people who want in tend to want to be either Beta Testers or actually make the games themselves, I've wanted to be both when I was young, but now its not for me.
Truthfully, I want to be the one that comes up with ideas for the games, as well as directing and writing my own plots, which currently seems unachievable...
shadow86sk
16-05-09, 01:13
yeah but if you dont know any C+ or so will you could write a script or so anyway U guess only people who have someone in the gaming industy get more easyly in to it and you know for me it would he hard to get to work XD
Electric Leo
16-05-09, 12:19
Truthfully, I want to be the one that comes up with ideas for the games, as well as directing and writing my own plots, which currently seems unachievable...
If you want to do that, you don't need for it to be your job before you show the world your capability. You could easily start creating material and then if you're good enough, a games company might sign you up to work on something small. Don't be discouraged by how hard it is to get paid to do something you love - just do the thing you love anyway!
Carbonox_Ratchet
16-05-09, 14:21
since this a topic on how to get to the dream job all gamers dream of I have a quesstion:
well how do you become a beta tester? :D and lets say it it possible to beta test from home? you know can be that some people (me) are in a wheelchair :P that would be intresting to know. I know I had no chance since no Capcom in slovakia but intresting to know :P
I'm not sure how professional beta testing is set up, but I guess you could start to look for private beta testing that many companies set up for games with online components. I beta tested Resistance 2, for example (which many other people all over the world did too). Companies do this on a frequent basis if you look around gaming sites.
If you can get a lot of experience through this (multiple games etc.), see what you can do to go up a level. Contact companies, see what else you can do.
well how do you become a beta tester? :D and lets say it it possible to beta test from home?
If you don't want to be paid you have a few options, currently I'm a beta tester for SCEE, I just signed up for it last summer and they chose me. Don't know when they'll open it again..
I was on a traineeship in making an event of a gameday, few weeks ago, where I could going in and out whenever I liked, and always had a free time to play videogames.
2. Is working in the games industry just playing Street Fighter all day?
Man, I wish. It's certainly true that I've been playing Street Fighter IV almost every day since we got the machines in the office about six months ago, but that's during lunch breaks and after office hours. Assuming that there's any time left in the day, that is. Playing games in general is pretty hard to find time for during the day. Even games that we're supposed to know inside out. Most of it has to be done in our spare time if we really want to get to know what we're working on. And we usually do.
The sad fact it, and this is certainly true for most games professionals I know, we have an awful lot of games, an awful lot of work to do and not an awful lot of time to spend playing them. If we're lucky we'll get some build notes from the developers, but the only guys who really get to play a lot of games are the guys in QA that test them. And that's maybe the hardest job in the industry (though anecdotally not a bad way into development, if it doesn't break you and leave you dead in the gutter). But I don't know much about QA bar that it often doesn't pay well, it's crazy hours and you play the games when they're broken and rubbish, not when they're finished and amazing. Imagine your favourite film. Now imagine watching it in sections, over and over, with the colour missing, or the picture flickering in and out, or the dubbing wrong, or the voices in a language you don't understand. Imagine you have to watch it 1000 times and log each and every error. Then imagine how much you'll love that film at the end of the process. That's, as far as I can tell, games testing.
More generally, working in the games industry means working very hard, and putting in a lot of hours, regardless of what role you have. I don't think there's many publishers in the UK with empty offices at 6pm. Or even 7pm. You'll also work weekends quite often, whether it's to attend an event or just to keep up with what's going on. So it's hard. Be prepared for that.
But what about the good stuff? Well, it's often possible to get hold of the games you love a touch earlier. Which isn't maybe worth a lifetime of subserviance to The Man, but is definitely Really Nice. And you generally get access to every game that's released, depending on what job you're doing and for who. It does mean your pile of games labelled To Play is full of things you'll never get to, despite having a passing interest in, but that's not a bad thing. And you do get to play the games when they're *nearly* finished. Which in some cases is the most incredible thing ever.
My main thought on this is simple - if you really love playing games and want a career doing just that, then there are not many options available to you. The people who play the most games, get to see the most games and spend the most time playing in their working life are the journalists. How to get into games journalism has been covered extensively elsewhere, so we don't need to get into that here (unless someone asks), but I think the general concensus there is that you should become a games journalist is you love writing as much as you love gaming. I think if you really want to spend most of your life playing games, you should go for a job that pays really well, doesn't involve a lot of time in the office and then you can afford to stay at home and play whatever you like, whenever you like. When you find that job, let me know - I'll send you my CV :)
Electric Leo
18-05-09, 23:16
I was on a traineeship in making an event of a gameday, few weeks ago, where I could going in and out whenever I liked, and always had a free time to play videogames.
[/B]
Right, but you're not doing that now, right? Because it wasn't a long term career, just a short job. I know loads of jobs that give you loads of free time. They're just not careers.
Trust Leo, we don't get the time to play games during office hours, we do it in our supposedly spare time.
Trust Leo, we don't get the time to play games during office hours, we do it in our supposedly spare time.
Oh, that depends~ :p
I said "we" :p
I would expect testers to test games.
yeah but if you dont know any C+ or so will you could write a script or so anyway U guess only people who have someone in the gaming industy get more easyly in to it and you know for me it would he hard to get to work XD
Like someone said before, go to game convention like Dream Hack in Sweden. It’s great to meet people that share same interest (games duh). I for instant manage to get contact with a programmer, who wants a project manager. I myself am education to become one, so his request was great but not in right time... But I let my teacher get contact with the programmer for further cooperation ********* . What I'm saying is that, try to create a team with diffreent skills and design games together. It shows then how good you and the team are, which I guess the industry requests to know. Note: It's only a hunch.
Project managment education is a good one to have in your portofolio, especially if you know Scrum, for having a chance in entering to the industry. Also be a girl XD I'm i right admins?
Right, but you're not doing that now, right? Because it wasn't a long term career, just a short job. I know loads of jobs that give you loads of free time. They're just not careers.
No not now, because it was a trainee session, but when I graduate from my education, it then could happen that I will built a career on it, arranging stuff with games (game event) for the same people I had my trainee at, expand, and arrange for new people I never meet. And hopefully can work again just the way you describe it. :p
Big Block...
I ment to get it but couldn't figure out as what. I found that by all criteria of abilities I posess I'd be destined to lay out games, but what's that Job? Then I wondered however that by laying out I simply wouldn't have a lot to afterwards animore so that I wondered being some sort of mercenary and how that would work. I'm not too well in drawing neither, yet people tell me that I'm good and should do Comics (I yet can't always make the same Guy look the same the next time, ... neglecting practice for a while)
Actually, I wonder what some "Video Game Craftsmen" would advise me to do, go for. I got no degree but High School, a line of broken off studies and trainings, but an about equally wide line of Games on my mind that by time just do get better.
I however thought that waiting my time down till I can actually finish a Demo Game or more and then to apply with it would be fine, yet however, I wonder how often does that come along and how well that would work. I basically wouldn't stop heading for that way on whatever reply, neither do I believe that a really stunning Game would not be sufficient to weigh out that Education thing, what would be interesting yet would be to get it done with neither - just a collection of designs, however. Geeeez--- and I wonder ... since I would want to fight for a Christianization of Games and P.R.
Cheers for writing that Leo, fascinating read...
Nice guide. well. its not really a guide. dont know what to call it :/ but it was a very nice read :D
I am doing a game development course at college at the moment. I just wish we had some who is develops games teaching us. do you do work experience by any chance?
Apart from mobile games we don't have an in-house studio in the UK, lrwr14, I'm afraid.
it's ok, i need to do a months worth of work exp soon, the college said they have contacts
Sweet. I've always wanted to do something in the video games industry as a job, but I always saw it as one fot hose impossible goals. But a couple of months back I realised, it's not impossible as long as I stick to it. But plenty of people still find it ridiculous so whenever someone asks me what I plan on doing, it's usually get some general qualifications and see where I go from there(which is more of a plan B).
EDIT:
@Irw14: Rare and Lionhead are UK based, if that helps. I'm unsure of whether they'd let you do Work Experience there or not.
are cool thanks EliteFreq, i will have a look.
Woah! No Way, I can't believe I never knew this was here! :O Especially considering I'm a game design student looking for work placements for the end of 2010/2011 :O
Thankyou for this, it was very interesting!
Wow i just found this really helpful guide on google =0) glad i did too but i am in need of some advice.
I am now 28 and have had a varied career past so far but unfortunitly nothing games related.
The highest qualification i have is a HND (Highe National Diploma) in software development which is about 5 years old. I did go to the 3rd year of uni to do software engineering which was actually a bad move as i was more intrested at the time in the Analytical Side of software development and this concentrated more on the programming which in turn i failed the degree =0(
Anyway back to my question i am intrested in trying to get into the PR\Marketing side of things as i fell i would be great at relating to gamers like myself when it comes to games and keeping forums liek these going or even in a more trouble shooting support role.
What i really want to know is there still time for me to get into the games industry and what would be the best route to take or is it just a lost dream. Dont worry please be honest i can take it :thumb:
Hi Phil, I don't know what your career background is but given your technical background, I'd suggest you try the Tech Support route - not particularly exciting, granted, but it can be a door opener to the industry. That's obviously only assuming that you don't have already a strong PR/marketing professional history.
Hi Phil, I don't know what your career background is but given your technical background, I'd suggest you try the Tech Support route - not particularly exciting, granted, but it can be a door opener to the industry. That's obviously only assuming that you don't have already a strong PR/marketing professional history.
Thanks for the advice, yeah i dont have any pr/marketing history except in a few sales roles none really i.t related and most of my background work consists of call centre work (arghhhh never again lol). I was thinking of the tech support route to maybe i can try nd get on a course if the social will help me out since im gonna be signing on for job seekers allowence(i live in the U.K :o)
I'm greatfull for your reply and has giving me a bit to go on thanks:o
I would even love to work in the community staff side of things but dont know if that would come under pr/marketing.
Hi Phil, with call centre experience and a technical background you stand a good chance to get a position in tech support, go for it ;)
Yes, community falls under marketing and PR.
Electric Leo
12-07-09, 21:39
I was 28 when I moved into the games industry. It's never too late :)
Thanks for the info and support guys i will deff look into tech support But i dont want to go back into a call centre enviroment :(
Okay I didn't know if I should make a new thread or post it here...
I'm searching after a traineeships where I can run projects with creating games. Any god suggestion where I can do that? (I'm in an education called "projectmanagement focus game).
Games Journalism has always intrigued me, and since I do videos on youtube all the time about games or using games etc
Who are the best people to contact when it comes to gaining promotional copies of games, and would I need to gain a certain amount of views on a website, or subscribers for instance before any companies would send out stuff.
Obviously writing reviews and just putting them anywhere is the best start, but video reviews i feel can show alot more information, and it still isnt done as much as i wouldve thought by now.
To get free copies, a blogger definitely needs to have a decent number of visitors/subscribers. We wouldn't sell any games if we sent free copies to every person who writes reviews!
Hey itsmyyard,
I understand where your coming from, I've started a gaming blog myself although I don't want to get into journalism more the marketing side. But most gaming magazines or sites will look for evidence that you enjoy writing about games. A blog is a great way to show your passion for writing and video games.
As Tenebra says only the top sites and bloggers with lots of subscribers will get the freebies which is expected. But saying that, there's nothing to stop you creating your own blog with a few friends about video games. Sure you may not get the freebies but you could represent real gaming opinions and on the one hand can write whatever you like.
The only other things I can think of are:
Join Twitter: The other bit of advice I would give is follow your favourite gaming journalists on Twitter, it's a mind field of them on there. It's a great way to keep up with the news, see what the professionals are doing and you may be able to hear about any opportunities.
Guest post for other sites: Write to some of the gaming websites and ask if you can do a guest post. I'm thinking the lesser known blogs here (but those that still have good readership). From here you may even gain a weekly slot on a gaming blog and go from there. Even so it will improve your CV and make it easier for large gaming magazines or sites consider hiring you.
Edge this month has an excellent overview of the more technical job roles of the games industry.
From game writers to programmers, modellers to software engineers and advice on some college courses & further education courses. Well worth picking up.
monumental
06-11-09, 10:27
Hopefully these video cribs may be of help to you as they answer some questions and offer a few tips on how to break into the industry.
Does a Lead Software Engineer just attend meetings all day? (http://www.monumentalgames.com/videos.php?id=10)
Do the QA department just play games? (http://www.monumentalgames.com/videos.php?id=9)
What does it take to become a lead artist? (http://www.monumentalgames.com/videos.php?id=8)
Being a Senior Game Producer (http://www.monumentalgames.com/videos.php?id=7)
charmed699
06-11-09, 10:56
I just watched one of the videos but very helpful information!
Thank you Mr Monumental for taking the time to do it.
Iceclimber
09-11-09, 21:02
Is there any chance for some advice for a guy really not sure what to do?
I've been wanting to work in games for a very long time, really in a creative role. I went to Uni and pretty much got screwed over (Thames Valley. Avoid at all costs). I've been trying to get tester work for since I graduated in 2007.
It has not gone well. It seems like no one wants to get back to me. I'm not really sure what kind of skills I have now.
What should I do now?
Sorry to hear about your university, Iceclimber. That seems to be the case with a lot of studies these days, unfortunately.
However, studies aside, the good news is that in the end it all comes down to your skillsets.
If you're not sure what you want to do, I think the first thing you need to do is to just get A job; any job [in the games industry, of course]. Bear in mind that even though you get hired for a specific position, that doesn't mean you're locked onto that for the rest of your life. You can fairly easily be moved around in the studio where appropriate. I was originally hired as Technical Artist, but now I'm primarily a Concept/General Artist. My mate went from doing PR for Konami to being a Lead Designer in LucasArts, and another friend of mine went from QA to being an Animator. Again, point is, don't worry too much about the first job as it's really only the beginning of your career, and it takes some time to settle down and find your niche within a studio.
Although, that said, I do want to stress that it's very important that you're not too vague when applying for jobs. You ought to be applying for one position at a time, or else I think it's safe to say that most employers won't really take your application too seriously [unless you're absolutely amazing!].
ie, don't apply for a job as an "animator/designer/concept artist", but pick whatever you feel is your strongest position, and go with that.
Iceclimber
10-11-09, 18:37
Yeah I know.
I've been trying for tester positions for ages.
CaptainCortez
11-11-09, 17:53
Ideally, I'd like to get into the games industry, hopefully in a creative area.
It seems the way most people get into it, is via QA testing to begin with, and then move on from there, to I guess whichever area they are more suited to.
It's really hard to enter anyway, but I wouldn't mind testing. I just wouldn't want to stay in it, as I feel it might possibly take the fun of gaming away, as it'd turn into your job.
I'm fine with writing, and actually like finding bugs in games (surprisingly, but then I guess some are hilarious). It's just a case of trying to get in somewhere at entry level, and progress from there.
I think a good idea would be to get some work experience in the industry, where possible, and then take it from there.
You never know, if you did well, or got on fine with people, you might even be able to get a reference from it, which should help career wise.
Though saying that, I'm one to talk, when I'm still looking for a job at the minute. Not really having much luck, as you need experience to get a job, but if nobody is employing you, it's almost impossible to get the experience.
Ah, it's a silly world.
Carbonox_Ratchet
11-11-09, 18:52
Cortez, your hobbies and past-times can also contribute to getting a job, which is exactly how I found my way in to mine. What things do you do in your spare time that you feel could find you a nice job in a niche industry? Not necessarily the gaming industry (anything but niche) but a job overall. Education is a huge plus too, so take in to consideration what qualifications you have or what you're wanting to strive for.
As for testing, I found this last night:
http://www.square-enix.com/eu/en/jobs/
Scroll down to "English/French/Italian/German/Spanish Localisation Testers"
For those of you interested, this could be a good start for you. ;]
CaptainCortez
11-11-09, 19:04
Carb, isn't localisation testing all about testing to see if the lips are synced properly etc, after the transition from Japanese to English voicework?
Something like that I think.
Hobbies wise, I like to use photoshop (used to make websites, funky graphics, try to colour artwork and drawings I do, that kinda thing). Plus, I can work things out in my head oddly, which maybe other people can't.
I guess it's my artistic side that comes into it, but I can work out how things fit together, just by imagining them in a 3D space in my mind, and somehow I work out the fittings and measurements in my head, do them by eye, and it comes out 99% of the time, exactly right.
Maybe I'm slightly a genious on that side of things, as they do say that there's a thin line between genious and insanity, and I am rather mad at times lol.
I like to paint models sometimes, and I'm quite happy sitting down and drawing for 4 hours. I like being creative, and have always been unsure on whether or not to try and do a marketing course, or go for a job in marketing.
Last of my hobbies is just the usual; Going out with friends, playing games and trying to get platinum trophies on all of them.
Edit: Cheers for the link man. Gonna go with it! :)
Edit 2: Hmm, worked out that the train fayre is like £350 - 400 a month for me to get there, and it's £6 an hour, so it'd only leave me with £200 a month (good job I don't drive at the minute), which is the same amount I get from the job centre, except for as this might lead somewhere if I got it, I think it'd be worth it, even if it sucks money wise for me, as I live a 2 hour train drive from london.
Gah, transport is so expensive.
Carbonox_Ratchet
11-11-09, 19:18
- Game testing and proof-reading: identifying and reporting linguistic mistakes (spelling, punctuation, grammar etc.) as well as functional game defects
- General tasks related to the quality assurance (QA) process
The biggest plus point any applicant should have where this is concerned is full understanding of the designated/chosen language, reading and writing wise.
Good luck though, definitely go for it if you think it will do you good. :]
CaptainCortez
11-11-09, 19:23
Yea, it's a tough one which I really need to think about, as it still leaves me in a hard financial situation.
I just need to have a good and hard think about it, but be pretty quick with it, else it's another missed opportunity.
My english skills are pretty good. I'd say I was good enough on that front, and I always have a bad habit of spotting grammatical errors, so it'd probably suit me down to a tee. It's just the money situation which is the problem.
Ah well, I'll speak to my dad about it, and see what he thinks.
Edit: Haha, 22 and still getting advice from my parents. They've been here longer than me though, so it's always good to get a wiser opinion of things.
Grace Saunders
23-12-09, 13:10
Hi, guys. Can you put "The Saunders Child" in the rest Resident Evil as this really annoying invincible boss that keeps coming back and back and back? Thank you. :chin:
Nice to see, more information is always appreciated. I'm applying for more jobs at the moment to get back into the industry and seem to be having a little trouble getting people to commit to anything. It's been 4 weeks of "We will tell you how your CV went next week."
Apologies for replying to an old thread but just wanted to say what a great resource it is :)
I'm a wannabe writer for want of a better description. Although I get paid for a few bits and pieces I know I'm at the bottom of the pile in the grand scheme of things ;)
It's interesting stuff reading about the PR side of things. I've had some dealings with PR people (including Leo although only once and I've no doubt that he doesn't remember me as it was just a speculative email!) and it really interests me :)
Pity I live in the exact wrong area of the UK at the moment for anything to do with the games industry!
Apologies for replying to an old thread but just wanted to say what a great resource it is :)
I'm a wannabe writer for want of a better description. Although I get paid for a few bits and pieces I know I'm at the bottom of the pile in the grand scheme of things ;)
It's interesting stuff reading about the PR side of things. I've had some dealings with PR people (including Leo although only once and I've no doubt that he doesn't remember me as it was just a speculative email!) and it really interests me :)
Pity I live in the exact wrong area of the UK at the moment for anything to do with the games industry!
Me too, but in Sweden! :p
I wonder how many times I have said Sweden?
Apologies for replying to an old thread but just wanted to say what a great resource it is :)
I'm a wannabe writer for want of a better description. Although I get paid for a few bits and pieces I know I'm at the bottom of the pile in the grand scheme of things ;)
It's interesting stuff reading about the PR side of things. I've had some dealings with PR people (including Leo although only once and I've no doubt that he doesn't remember me as it was just a speculative email!) and it really interests me :)
Pity I live in the exact wrong area of the UK at the moment for anything to do with the games industry!
I was in South Wales, for the past three years at uni, and I must agree it wasn't really the best place to be in the UK, however I left wales when i finished university. Really if you want to get into games journo (am I right in thinking that?) best areas to live seem to be in or somewhere around london.
Of course the only thing is south wales is quite cheap, which I miss ^__^
I was in South Wales, for the past three years at uni, and I must agree it wasn't really the best place to be in the UK, however I left wales when i finished university. Really if you want to get into games journo (am I right in thinking that?) best areas to live seem to be in or somewhere around london.
Of course the only thing is south wales is quite cheap, which I miss ^__^
Hehe yup. Cheap to live (and pretty as I'm by the coast :D) but lacking in anything relevant to the games industry! Do try to get to London when I can though for events but not quite the same.
Hehe yup. Cheap to live (and pretty as I'm by the coast :D) but lacking in anything relevant to the games industry! Do try to get to London when I can though for events but not quite the same.
Yeah, when it takes like three hours to get there the events have to really be worth it :P
Yeah, when it takes like three hours to get there the events have to really be worth it :P
Hehe I did it for a RE5 event last year and it was worth it :D Was out from 9am till 11pm though. :blink:
I'd do it again though!
Silphonica
21-02-10, 12:48
I'm going down the computing science router atm, not really sure what industry I'd want to break into. However, the whole journalism side for video games is actually appealing to me most at the minute, I guess there is still time though. :)
I was in South Wales, for the past three years at uni, and I must agree it wasn't really the best place to be in the UK, however I left wales when i finished university. Really if you want to get into games journo (am I right in thinking that?) best areas to live seem to be in or somewhere around london.
Of course the only thing is south wales is quite cheap, which I miss ^__^
Wait what? Wales is cheap? That's impossible. I have to go there and see it by myself. :eek:
While a lot of games publishers are based in a traingle around West London out towards Reading and down to Surrey there are development teams scattered all around the country.
There are pockets of developers in the Midlands, East Anglia, South coast and North West of the country. Infact they're all over the country!
As for games magazines & websites the big publishing houses are Future with offices in Bath & London and Imagine down in Bournmouth. The big american sites Gamespot & IGN are London and Eurogamer is in Brighton.
Really if you want to get into games there is no one place that is better than others although do expect to move around!
From what i understand the hours can be REALLY unsocial working in the games industry, going as far as working 18 hours a day for six months to get the work done when your on a deadline. While i myself enjoy developing or altering exisiting games(i do this alot :D) I don't like the idea of doing it to tight deadlines. If you're gonna make a game you should be able to keep on developing it aslong as you like until it's ready. lol just look at halo 2 for an example of sucky deadlines.
Anyways question for Leo now.....
Ps3 debug machines, as awesome as they are. Do all game developers get access to those? A friend of mine claims to work as a QA tester for sony in liverpool and claims to have one of thos machines at home. Personally i think he's BSing. Do you guys get access to them? if so can we habz a pic of one plzzzzzzzzzzz, never seen a ps3 one before
There's two types of machines, and by debug I guess you mean a test kit, if he has to work from home at times they may let him have one at home, although the only people I know with test machines at home generally have fairly high up jobs.
Then there's the dev kits which look flipping creepy! companies don't generally like their dev kits having pictures taken of, I can tell you they look really weird however and look nothing like a PS3 :D.
I'm sure he'd generally be able to have a test kit, especially being in QA as they are pretty much just look like a ps3, just not so much a dev kit ;)
Hope you're alright with me answering, I was bored in the morning :)
There's two types of machines, and by debug I guess you mean a test kit, if he has to work from home at times they may let him have one at home, although the only people I know with test machines at home generally have fairly high up jobs.
Then there's the dev kits which look flipping creepy! companies don't generally like their dev kits having pictures taken of, I can tell you they look really weird however and look nothing like a PS3 :D.
I'm sure he'd generally be able to have a test kit, especially being in QA as they are pretty much just look like a ps3, just not so much a dev kit ;)
Hope you're alright with me answering, I was bored in the morning :)
Lol yeah it's fine. It's just after seeing the debug kits for the likes of the ps2, xbox, wii and gamecube. I would have expected the ps3 one to be really weird haha. been trying to get a hold of a ps2 debug kit for a long time strictly for the region free-ness. I wantz wild arms :(
You wouldn't be able to do much with a debug kit, you can't play retail code on them :)
A lot of people think that getting a devkit is the way to go when applying for a job in the games industry, which is absolutely not the case. Devkits are really expensive for one, and you need an official license for it. In addition to this, normally they are owned by first parties or publishers - which means a lot of studios actually ships many/all of their devkits back after the project is over.
I think unless you have a very keen interest in console hardware, you should focus on making your game work on PC. Bear in mind that most engines supports multiple formats.
Gamesproducerjan
21-04-10, 08:55
Nice thread Electric Leo. I actually have worked in the games industry for well over 6 years primarily in evaluation, certification and QA. I am currently seeking some advice on moving out of QA and into Production as a junior producer. I have obtained a Degree in interactive media and have experience with GDD's, SCRUM etc.
So Leo do you think you might have some advice for me. In the mean time I'll drop some advice for new entry people.
Beginning a career in the games industry, retail is not a good first step. I would highly recommend looking into QA (Quality Assurance) or certification those jobs are usually about playing a title to ensure its stability and report any bugs which may be fixed to improve the general quality of the title in test. Whilst working in a QA/Cert environment you will undoubtedly learn a lot about the inner workings of the industry and make friends with similar interests. The downside of QA is as fun as most people believe playing a game is after a six month+ test cycle you will surely know the pains of QA especially if the title is not what you enjoy example (Barbie, Hello Kitty etc).
Nice thread Electric Leo. I actually have worked in the games industry for well over 6 years primarily in evaluation, certification and QA. I am currently seeking some advice on moving out of QA and into Production as a junior producer. I have obtained a Degree in interactive media and have experience with GDD's, SCRUM etc.
So Leo do you think you might have some advice for me. In the mean time I'll drop some advice for new entry people.
Beginning a career in the games industry, retail is not a good first step. I would highly recommend looking into QA (Quality Assurance) or certification those jobs are usually about playing a title to ensure its stability and report any bugs which may be fixed to improve the general quality of the title in test. Whilst working in a QA/Cert environment you will undoubtedly learn a lot about the inner workings of the industry and make friends with similar interests. The downside of QA is as fun as most people believe playing a game is after a six month+ test cycle you will surely know the pains of QA especially if the title is not what you enjoy example (Barbie, Hello Kitty etc).
I know lots of people that have made the step out of QA into producer or design roles. To be honest it sounds like you're nearly there but just need the break to get a chance to make the next step. Good luck with it, i'm sure something will come up soon.
From what i understand the hours can be REALLY unsocial working in the games industry, going as far as working 18 hours a day for six months to get the work done when your on a deadline. While i myself enjoy developing or altering exisiting games(i do this alot :D) I don't like the idea of doing it to tight deadlines. If you're gonna make a game you should be able to keep on developing it aslong as you like until it's ready. lol just look at halo 2 for an example of sucky deadlines.
Catmoo has already answered the 2nd part to your question excellently so allow me to answer the first bit. :D
The dev hours is a touchy subject. At the moment with recent complaints from spouses about antisocial working hours and ridiculous hours. I've worked at companies where there were beds in the dev studios, people worked through the night to hit deadlines! The main cause for a lot of this is the producers not getting ontop of the development team early enough rather than tight deadlines set from managment. It's no different to homework. If you have 2months to hand in your coursework you don't do a little bit every day untill it's done you do it at the last minute!
Publishers and Studios are starting to see that having people working 18 hour days isn't good for anyone at all. There are some studios now that insist upon people working from 9-5 doing nothing else, no internet, no gossiping over a coffee, it's not to everyones taste but at 5pm the lights are switched off and everyone goes home. (Read here about Relentless http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/feature-relentless-buzz-and-social-gaming?page=0%2C0)
As for being able to make the game untill it is finished, you'll need a very rich backer if that was the case! Every game needs to recoup what it costs and turn a profit or there is no more games company! If it costs £10m a year to make a game after 2 years your game will cost £20million add on marketing and royalties and you're looking at the game needing to make £30million to break even. Now if you had unlimited time to make a game thats all well and good but your game better be pretty special inorder to recoup the money you've outlaid on it. Now imagine someone has said you can have as long as you like to make the game it's taken you 5 years to make but you spent another year polishing it. When you're ready to release it GTA V, Resi 6 and MW4 are all coming out within the same week. Still fancy your chances of making your money back?! That is really why deadlines exist, to keep costs in line with your budget.
Gamesproducerjan
22-04-10, 17:02
Thanks onlyonet (http://www.capcom-europe.com/forum/member.php?u=29251). I am currently employed by VMC which does certification. I guess getting into a proper QA department for a publish would be more appropriate then wait for the right time.
I'll start applying for a few QA lead roles or even tester roles.
I think unless you have a very keen interest in console hardware, you should focus on making your game work on PC. Bear in mind that most engines supports multiple formats.
Well, I guess I won't listen to your answer unless I like it - so, this wall I may have to discover myself if there is one -- but I have no degree in any way, shape or form - nothing in terms of education beyond private work and finishing high school. Yet - since I was little and bla bla I wanted to do games and possibly can't be stopped at working at what I work at right now since my current employment allows me to (else I would have to die from boredness). However - it is a long termed goal while my life is in short terms reaching the 30s - and, do you see any encouraging words by any chance?:facepalm:
(And since when is Ten just a registered user???Undercover?:spy: Oops then! )
Carbonox_Ratchet
07-06-11, 15:07
Tenebra is no longer with Capcom.
Regarding your other comment, why not carry on with education? High school qualifications aren't going to get you anywhere unless you're insanely lucky.
raine_ryuzaki1
08-06-11, 18:02
however regardless of education, there are enough jobs out there for all of us!!
Insanely lucky as - my recent fortune cookie told me that I'd be lucky with all personal things. :taunt1: lolz. Yeah well - I guess it would be all going down to that; While I think that education is relative ... Talent is important! (Got to be enthusiastic)
Carbonox_Ratchet
08-06-11, 21:59
Yeah, there are lot of ways to get in to the industry and all its varying areas. Education requirements and other things are all dependent on what area you want to get in to and again, luck.
If you're dedicated or persistent, you'll find your way in one day. Just try to take in to account all the variables.
:matrix::matrix::matrix::matrix::matrix:yeah, variables!
Leo's story is pretty close to how I got into the games industry too...
You'll need a bit of luck on your side in some form, since there is so much competition...
I only have a high school degree myself, so it was a strong CV and portfolio that made my application count.
But it's very rewarding work when you finally make it! So if you fail, get up and try again!
RED-DRAGON-CRO
13-06-11, 21:09
Yeah its the spirit that counts keep trying and u will manage it(i hope i manage it too when i m done with school):D
Meanwhile working on an RE game myself but currently i m at a state of pause till i come up with some ideas that would be usable.Got the characters(Main chars are respective chars from the RE series,will not mention which in order to not spoil anything if i make it),got the story(basics and partly of the actual storyline),weapons(some that i came up with that would be matching but some may be canceled in the final phase),background(location and weather,partly tought of),Minigame(Mercenaries and other modes that i tought of matching this game),system(basicly using system software,engine like used in RE4 and RE5 for the control system and shematics but with improvements)