View Full Version : I want a return of the puppets
After recently discovering that DMC 5 could be tailored to user sugestions, I immediately made it my mission to see that the puppets from DMC 1 make a return.
They where by far the best enemy from any game ever made and there where many attempts made by capcom to re-create them (DMC-4 springs to mind). So i say why try to sneek around it and just bring them back.
Basically this is my attempt of creating a campaign to bring back the puppets from DMC1.
Please let me know if you agree because it cant just be me that wants this.
For sure. Actually, my favourite drone enemies were the cage dudes from 2. I just loved their design and some of their attacks. But the Marionettes were great because they were so dangerous, varied and aggressive from the very start.
I hated the drones in 3 and 4 because they're pretty much just moving targets that hardly attack at all. They're only ever dangerous when they're in huge groups.
Im glad someone agrees.
even to this day I still think that the first game is the best, not in every way of course but it managed to be challanging without relying on hoards simply because of a very well designed enemy.
I don't care about puppets, in fact I prefer demons from Devil May Cry 3...
I liked the puppets! they were an interesting twist on the zombie/drone idea. plus the way they exploded was awesome! i think a return to them would be quite cool.
I don't care about puppets, in fact I prefer demons from Devil May Cry 3...
I didn't know that anyone actually hated them. I assumed that everyone liked them cause they were soo awsome.
but to be honest the only thing that I liked in dmc3 was the storyline, and even then the acting was pretty bad.
Carbonox_Ratchet
30-07-10, 13:10
The Sins in DMC3 were punch bags and very easy to take on.
The Marionettes in DMC1 were a lot more dangerous I found, especially on harder difficulties. They were also unpredictable at times and had more abilities than any other drone enemy in the series. It's because of their flexibility that made them one of my favourite drone enemies in any game. They even received an upgrade/help later in the game in the form of Fetishes, who were brutal on the harder difficulties.
If the Marionettes can't return then I'd like to think we'd see similar enemies where risk is concerned. We haven't seen a dangerous 'regular' enemy in the series since.
So until that day, I'll just caress my Marionette figure sitting on my shelf. D:
Devil MayCry is one of my favourite capcom titles second to that of Resident Evil
I think that it would be good idea to see a return of the puppets as well as the Marionettes from DMC 2
As they was also a pretty good enemy to play with.
There isn’t much more I could add to this as I find myself agreeing with pretty much all that as been sead already ..
Using the same enemies doesn't mean that they must keep the same difficult...
Carbonox_Ratchet
30-07-10, 19:22
Which would depend on if the Sins would return via a copy and paste job, or if they were revamped with more abilities and more ways to counter your actions. If it's the latter, then the difficulty wouldn't be the same.
However, I'd rather not see old fodder return (though would settle for Marionettes). Some new drones with similarities and strengths to older and more threatening enemies would be nice. The Scarecrows in DMC4 were garbage and offered no barriers to even a casual player.
once again i find my self agreeing with all that is sead but i also must disagree i think some old drones should return but yes with new ability's to counter as they need to yes NEED to have some counter ability's if that was so0 then a visit from an old adversary would be nice to see dont you think
So until that day, I'll just caress my Marionette figure sitting on my shelf. D:
OMG where did you get that, I want one soo badly.
sorry for going off topic.
Carbonox_Ratchet
04-08-10, 13:11
There's a small game shop called Chips in a neighbouring town. They sell a variety of figures and I was lucky enough to score a Marionette along with a Takara Trish figure. They were basically the last DMC-related figures in stock there and the store never got new ones in, as far as I know, which is a shame as I would have wanted some more of the miniature Takara figures.
Ok thanks for that.
Although back on topic, I'm glad to see that there is such a good response from people. I'm sure the developers have had a similar discussion but I cant see why they didn't keep the original enemies.
The Scarecrows in DMC4 were garbage and offered no barriers to even a casual player.Yes, but I think they shouldn't be an obstacle... I think their purpose is to be cannon fodder. (I'm not sure google gives me the right translation... I don't understand it...).
You think puppets as hard opponents, because there were few other enemies, other than bosses.
Carbonox_Ratchet
07-08-10, 14:11
Cannon fodder's bang on. Devil May Cry is quite a different game to its sequels due to different design choices and features. Its RE4 past is evident and the enemies are of a totally different caliber to what we've now become accustomed to.
Personally, I prefer difficult opponents, as opposed to cannon fodder. The satisfaction in being able to overcome an enemy's strengths in order to set them up for a perfect finisher is far greater than having a free pass to destroy any given enemy. Not too dissimilar to Ninja Gaiden where the basic fodder are relentless and brutal enemies.
There are many other enemies that are hard to beat, you cannot say the same thing about DMC1 and was necessary to make all few types challenging opponents (except for the skulls who are much more easier than anything else... except normal spiders)
Devil May Cry 3 and 4 gave much more enemies to fight, like those flying things from DMC3, chess, "angels", and the Death comes back many times.
DMC4 has more enemies than other games, Lizards (the best enemy in the serie) & "seeded" lizards, Bianco Angelo, Mephisto, Frost...
Carbonox_Ratchet
08-08-10, 16:44
I feel that the quantity outshone the quality. You had more enemies thrown at you in an attempt to make the numbers a challenge, rather than each individual enemy being a challenge.
Devil May Cry 4's enemies were all easy to defeat, made all the more prevalent in Dante Must Die. The Devil Bringer's cheapness made all the modes the equivalent of Easy-Auto.
What needs to be done is to balance the characters and the enemies. Ensure that you can take out enemies stylishly but by overcoming the enemies and their strengths, rather than just steamrolling over them due to poor design choices.
No, I'm talking about quantity of "species", not about enemies on screen (even if this is awesome).
And while I'm talking about DMC4, I'm talking about Dante, not Nero. ;)
Anyway:
I didn't know that anyone actually hated them. I assumed that everyone liked them cause they were soo awsome.I don't hate them, I just don't care.
lol fair enough,
Although I'm with Carbonox_Ratchet on this one. I think the developers really need to up the game a little. They should certainly start by writing nero out of the story, it seems to be the one thing that people agree with.
I was thinking, how would having a powered down version of the Nobodies (http://www.devils-lair.org/enemies/dmc1/nobody2.jpg) from 1 feel? Those guys are nightmare fuel!
The thought hadn't cross my mind, but they where pretty cool.
They added an extra scene of horror into the game.
The thought hadn't cross my mind, but they where pretty cool.
They added an extra scene of horror into the game.
Carbonox_Ratchet
03-09-10, 13:46
I was thinking, how would having a powered down version of the Nobodies (http://www.devils-lair.org/enemies/dmc1/nobody2.jpg) from 1 feel? Those guys are nightmare fuel!
The Nobodies were awesome enemies. Brutal and annoying to fight. That's the sort of enemy I want in the series. Not Frosts who went from hard in DMC1 to stupidly easy and generic in DMC4.
I believe that was the case with most enemies in DMC4 in the words of II_ARROWS "cannon fodder", which describes just about all of them.
CaptainCortez
17-09-10, 11:12
There's a small game shop called Chips in a neighbouring town. They sell a variety of figures and I was lucky enough to score a Marionette along with a Takara Trish figure. They were basically the last DMC-related figures in stock there and the store never got new ones in, as far as I know, which is a shame as I would have wanted some more of the miniature Takara figures.
A model shop briefly opened up in my town when I was in High School (I think it was my final year), and I managed to get the Dante and Trish models from the same set as your Marionette. I haven't opened them or anything. They're still in their packaging, hanging up on my wall. :p
That's for DMC1 enemies; The Puppets were awesome, and the way they just kept coming regardless of you slashing them, was just horrible and kept you tense throughout the fights.
I really loved the shadowcats, and later on when three come after you (hard mode), it became insane. I had enough problems dealing with one in an open area, but when three were around, well.....it takes skill to surpass that. Everything in DMC1 was a heck of a lot harder, and a single enemy could easily kill you if you let your guard slip even for a second.
That is one of the things I miss the most, as well as the bosses chasing you down, and coming back even stronger than the last time you fought them. The game was harder than adamantium, but that's what I liked most about it. It had guts, and was mostly for the hardcore.
Even easy automatic could pose a threat, and when you get up to the first fight with Nelo Angelo on hard mode, you realise that the ai is just as good as you, the player. It was insane, and still remains to be the best in the series by far to me!
I'd love to see these elements back. It would make my day!
Ryu Kazama
17-09-10, 11:19
I've always wanted to see Shadows make a return. Those things made me rage hard on DMD mode. I beat Nero1, then lo and behold I HAVE to beat 2 Shadows to move on? insane. Then 2 in that teeny weeny corridor. Total madness. They basically took a whole life bar away with one attack.
Would love to see the demon goats too.
As for DMC4's enemies, those electric things gave me issues. I only bothered playing through once but Lord, they sucked so much.
CaptainCortez
17-09-10, 11:29
Haha, the electric ones drove me mad. Just when you thought you were doing well, one would show up and end you in a flash. :p
Also, regarding the Goat Demons; They were my biggest threat in DMC1. Forget the bosses, even though some were mega hard......the Goat Demon was my biggest pain in my behind ever. I hated it so much that whenever I played the game, I saved all of my anger and frustration for those things, and absolutely destroyed them. It was very risky though, because one slip up could be fatal, and he was sooooooo annoying in the sewers, in that tiny confined space.
He could go through the walls, floor and ceiling.....you couldn't.
Carbonox_Ratchet
17-09-10, 12:15
Wut. The Blitz in Devil May Cry 4 were some of the easiest enemies in the entire game. Both Nero and Dante had certain tactics that you could employ with ease.
CaptainCortez
17-09-10, 12:23
Hmm, I struggled against them. I had to jump around and mid-air dash without seeing him on the screen most of the time, as there was no point constantly trying to fix the camera on him, as if you did that, he'd just teleport behind you mid-attack, and mess you up good.
Also, regarding Fetishes in DMC1; They're just plain horrid. They could completely and utterly slaughter you in seconds, and it really made things unfair, but that's what I love. If a real demon outbreak occured, it would be the same way. We couldn't find them without a massive amount of skill, and if you slipped up once, you'd be brown bread!
Carbonox_Ratchet
17-09-10, 12:45
3 maximum charged shots from the Blue Rose to remove his armor; this can be done in 10 seconds tops. Hit Devil Trigger, Buster the Blitz three times, one after the other so he doesn't hit you (you'll have time if you spam O) then finish off with a single shot. What's that, 20 seconds tops? Maybe less?
With Dante, spam Lucifer on it to stun it with every hit. You have to use the attack where he flings out 4 in an arch formation or something of the sort. I think it's forward, R1 and Triangle. Hit Devil Trigger for even quicker and more powerful hits. The attack is so cheap he'll go down quicker than if you use Nero.
Or you can use Gilgamesh and use Real Impact but the moment the frame occurs where Dante connects, instantly hit Devil Trigger to add a stupid amount of damage at that moment. I can't remember but either or two of these (if you connect as you can miss) will kill it right away.
CaptainCortez
17-09-10, 12:54
Well, the problem I find when facing it, is whilst charging, if you mess up just once, he'll damage you, and you'll have to start the charge again (from what I recall).
I only just recently learned how to jump cancel properly with both characters. It's hard stuff, but helps to deal a crazy amount of damage. I'd already beaten the game several times beforehand, but jump cancelling seems the way forward for the harder enemies in DMC4.
Anyway, next time I fire DMC4 up, I'll try what you said. Though, I did have a thing going on where you buster the blitz into the air, then jump up and catch him on the way down, and then do it to him again on the ground. Trouble is, the timing has to be insanely accurate. I've only pulled it off a few times.
The shadows where pretty sweet.
The only reason why I wouldn't want to fight them again is because of the stress that they cause me in DMC1. But I think thats my fault for being poo at the game.
Wut. The Blitz in Devil May Cry 4 were some of the easiest enemies in the entire game. Both Nero and Dante had certain tactics that you could employ with ease.
I agree, the blitz didn't pose much of a problem in DMC4. In fact if you had any problem then simply watch this vid and you should see how its done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_lKsq5Y3Og
CaptainCortez
21-10-10, 19:44
If a monster in a good game stresses me out, then good. It's done its job. ;)
I hate easy games with a passion, and more often than not, start on the hardest mode available just to make the game last longer.
I crave a challenge, and if a game is too easy, it often puts me off.
I love how hard the DMC series is on the later modes (well, DMC1, normal is hard enough, but hard's brilliant. Love it!) and hope it continues to challenge me as much as the previous games do.
Having two shadowcats in one corridor was one of the biggest pains in my butt of all time. Then, having three at once in a bigger area later on in the game just took stress to a whole new level. Good stuff.
Carbonox_Ratchet
22-10-10, 18:48
If a monster in a good game stresses me out, then good. It's done its job. ;)
I hate easy games with a passion, and more often than not, start on the hardest mode available just to make the game last longer.
I crave a challenge, and if a game is too easy, it often puts me off.
I love how hard the DMC series is on the later modes (well, DMC1, normal is hard enough, but hard's brilliant. Love it!) and hope it continues to challenge me as much as the previous games do.
Having two shadowcats in one corridor was one of the biggest pains in my butt of all time. Then, having three at once in a bigger area later on in the game just took stress to a whole new level. Good stuff.
Challenges depend on a player's skill. What is a challenge to one person, isn't necessarily a challenge to another. What was a challenge to one person, doesn't make it a challenge after a few weeks for said person.
But yes, I agree, I would like a challenge when initially getting in to the game as that's the core component when creating enemy AI. Whether or not something is challenging after practicing is irrelevant as the first run of a game is always the most important and most fresh to a gamer's mind.
If it's easy from the off then I won't be too impressed. If I get stuck or get in trouble in my first run, then you know that game isn't trying to guide you along, hold your hand and cure any boo-boo's. It wants you to fail.
Games like Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry 3 come to mind. You're going to die and you're going to die regularly. Even something like Demon's Souls applies.
Initially-challenging games are where the fun is at. Unfortunately Devil May Cry 4 wasn't one of those. Nero's Devil Bringer was an insanely-powerful crutch that could stop any enemy dead in their tracks and be abused to exploit enemies. With Devil May Cry 3, you couldn't rely on one thing - you had to utilise everything Dante had to get the better of an enemy.
With regards to the Marionettes, they were challenging, even for a first run and even on Normal mode in DMC1. THAT is the type of enemy grunt I come to expect from these games.
I crave a challenge, and if a game is too easy, it often puts me off.
I also crave a challenge, but if it crosses the line and becomes frustrating, either because it's made to be near impossible, or designed badly so that the solution isn't clear, then I'll just give up with the game.
There are exceptions to the rule, but only those that are built to test a player by being exact, etc, rather than those that are challenging by ignorance.
With regards to the Marionettes, they were challenging, even for a first run and even on Normal mode in DMC1. THAT is the type of enemy grunt I come to expect from these games.
I suppose I could settle for a grunt that was a technically challanging as the Marionettes if they decided not to bring them back into the new game.
been gone for long, still wanting to know the what people think about this.
LeonBelmontX
12-02-11, 13:48
I love the Marionettes, but I also loved the Hells in DMC3. The basic ones were a bit of sword-fodder, but I loved the mix of the uppercutting Lusts, explosive Wraths, teleporting Sloths etc. On the harder difficulties they could really keep you on your toes, whilst still making it possible to pull off some really cool combos.
I do think DMC1 had the best selection of enemies though.
Favourite enemies in DMC series:
DMC1: Marionettes, Shadows, Sins/Deaths, Blitz, Frosts and most of the bosses
DMC2: Errr, none? The Despair Embodied was a decent boss.
DMC3: Hells, Hell Vanguard, and most bosses
DMC4: Scarecrow (though a little more fodder-y than Puppets/Hells) Alto & Bianco Angelos, Assaults, Frosts a good few of the bosses.
If they could make a game with a mix of those, I'd be happy :P
I really liked some of DMC4's enemies, I just found Nero's playstyle to not have enough variety.
I think nero is the one thing that people agree on, and thats just leave him the hell out of the game. But I dont know if capcom will listen or not.
LeonBelmontX
13-02-11, 21:59
I think nero is the one thing that people agree on, and thats just leave him the hell out of the game. But I dont know if capcom will listen or not.
I disagree. While I want Dante to be the lead character, I want Nero to return as a side character (like Lady and Trish). There's just too many unanswered questions around him to simply leave them unexplained.