View Full Version : Should there be an award system for the Wii??
deathstench2009
25-11-09, 23:26
Do you think there should be an award system on the Wii? Think about SSBB like collecting all stickers and trophies in game or REUC getting all in game files and S rankings in missions? I want to know your opinion! In my opinion I believe there should be an award system as some of the games can facilitate this quite easily!
Basically Nintendo created achievements with Super Smash Bros Melee...
But miyamoto said that are not good... -_-'
In Disaster there are very good "achievements" but why should I spend time if I have none to compare with?
I don't care anymore about Nintendo, whatever they do about it I am not interested even if I wish they will do a good online system... When Iwata presented the Wii, he said that "the console will be connected 24h/24h, your friend will know what you are playing and send you messages".
I saw this on Xbox, not on Wii...
thezombiemessia
26-11-09, 01:24
I see no point...
Honestly, if the only enjoyment you get out of games is clearing set requirements that the developers...oh, wait, you already do that.
Ummm, if you only feel rewarded by getting something out of...wait...they already do that...
Ok, if you only get enjoyment out of arbitrary numbers assigned to a secondary reward that serves no purpose other than to compare to other players, then it seems that you aren't really interested in the games anymore...
junglist_dnb
26-11-09, 01:33
Im what is called a achievement/trophy w###e but it doesn't change my interest in games, if they weren't there then so be it, but I do think they do add some replayability to games, I wont by games just for achievements though (avatar)
That said I dont see it catching on for Wii titles, I wouldn't mind them but it would possibly ruin the fun for me.
RagingAvatar
26-11-09, 13:41
Do any of us actually have any time to spend on another achievement/trophy system? Personally, I quite like playing my Wii *very* occasionally - just to play something different.
However, I won't be buying another Nintendo console - after Gamecube and Wii they robbed me too much. (Might buy another handheld in future though..)
I see no point...
Honestly, if the only enjoyment you get out of games is clearing set requirements that the developers...oh, wait, you already do that.
Ummm, if you only feel rewarded by getting something out of...wait...they already do that...
Ok, if you only get enjoyment out of arbitrary numbers assigned to a secondary reward that serves no purpose other than to compare to other players, then it seems that you aren't really interested in the games anymore...
Whilst I agree, that's only one side of it.
I see achievements as a degree of completion to a game, so that, ultimately, by doing as much as you can, you really get the most out of a game and it's friendly competition with friends. Of course there are those that are stupid over it and get somewhat bigheaded and obsessive, but ultimately, if the score doesn't matter to you, then it's no big deal.
I also like the avatar awards on 360, if more developers use it, then it's not only showing an acomplishment, you don't have to pay for something on that level. Left 4 Dead 2, for example, has given my avatar some nice stuff to wear at no extra cost.
I don't think the Wii needs an award system, since, surprisingly, I find it's the least social console I own.
Naaah, for me, the 360 is my achievement console (though not just for them) and my Wii and PS3 are for more fun.
EDIT: Then again, I did enjoy the trophies in Brawl. They made me want to play the game more and get more value out of the game, like someone above said. Sooo, I'm gonna say no to achievements, but some Wii titles should carry on including the mini achievement system in some games.
chaosriotzero
26-11-09, 20:45
the only reward system i would like to see on Nintendo is maybe adding stars rewards into games. maybe like if you completed a game you could get 100 stars, these go toward the thing on the nintendo vip stars thing. that way you can get other things from nintendo, they have some cool stuff on their site you can get with those stars.
if youve no idea what my rambling is about then www.nintendovip.com
To me achievements are just something that goes on in the background. i have unloacked a boat loead of them in tekken 6 so far and haven't bothered to check what any of them are. this is because i simply dont care. if an achievement doesn't crop up in the the normal cpourse of the game i dont go after it. increasing some pointless number on my gamer card doesn't add any enjoyment to the game. i could have coped perfectly well without a little icon telling me i had pulled off 365 flashy finishes in SFIV. i would much rather wii developers focused thier attentions on producing quality software (which is rather sparse from 3rd parties on wii anyway) than adding some pointless list of icons.
deathstench2009
26-11-09, 22:54
I have interest in some of the games zombiemessiah especially SSBB. I've got hours of enjoyment out of that game since the SSB was launched for the N64! Infact the reason why I bought the wii was of the retro titles you could download! Which to much annoyance goldeneye007 has not been released yet:-/.Ahh goldeneye I miss that game so much!! I've played rfom on the ps3 for months because the multiplayer interface is possibly the most simplistic to navigate and that game holds no achievements. Thanks for the constuctive critcism zombie;). I agree with stars for nintendovip! They give away pretty cool stuff!
I see no point...I see no point in "no", or even criticize something like that. It's only an internet-visible collection of what you can do and always as been part of the gaming community. Did you ever challenge a friend because you can do something and he doesn't?
It's something that happen from ever, now internet can show it to everyone. You can check what your friends did, and know how much he played a game.
You can even check an opponent to know if he did those stupid things because he doesn't know the game so much.
Good achievements can give you other challenges. You talked about doing unuseful things in RE5 just to lenghten the game? What's wrong with achievement? It's the same thing. The difference is that is rewarded.
It's part of being a player the will to match his abilities with others. It's the most important part. It's always been.
thezombiemessia
27-11-09, 00:42
I see no point in "no", or even criticize something like that. It's only an internet-visible collection of what you can do and always as been part of the gaming community. Did you ever challenge a friend because you can do something and he doesn't?
It's something that happen from ever, now internet can show it to everyone. You can check what your friends did, and know how much he played a game.
You can even check an opponent to know if he did those stupid things because he doesn't know the game so much.
Good achievements can give you other challenges. You talked about doing unuseful things in RE5 just to lenghten the game? What's wrong with achievement? It's the same thing. The difference is that is rewarded.
It's part of being a player the will to match his abilities with others. It's the most important part. It's always been.
But it's only a secondary reward.
The games reward you anyway, with extra weapons, lives, money, characters, maps, storyline, information, enjoyment, etc, etc, etc.
I see no point in having to show off to friends and family that "Pressed start - 20G" "Completed storymode - 50G" "Ran 2,000 metres - 5G" etc, etc, etc.
The vast majority of achievements don't add length to a game, because they reward you, a second time, for doing something you have to do to actually complete the game.
Either that, or you have to play the game so many times to get 5g that you get incredibly bored of the game.
There are only a minority of achievements that seem interesting, with the rest being thrown in to make up the complete 1000G.
Trophies on the PS3 also fit this, along with various PSP games that feature an accolade system.
There is the argument that I could always ignore them, which I do for the most part...but does anybody else ever get a friend look at their score and just go "You only got ###G on ###? You must suck!" at which point you start talking about things they never even noticed or experienced in that game?
Achievements & Trophies force you down yet another developer made path, and with the vast majority of games nowadays being open-field, there are so many things that developers put in that aren't rewarded if you find them (bar the actual reward of finding them).
as I said before, if you start caring about Trophies/Achievements/Accolades more than you're interested in playing the actual game...well, that's gotta say something...
I totally agree with that TZM! whats more, just to reply to II arrows coments, if I dont care that i have pressed start/walked 2000 meters or achieved some other equally pointless and insignificant mile stone, why should I care what the guy i just played Street Fighter with has done?
It's all a matter of perception really.
Me, I love the added value of achievements.
They drive me to do stuff I probably wouldn't discover or do on my own, like finding secrets or fighing a boss with a weak weapon.
In games like street fighter, it would show me how much the person is involved in the game, like having played his/her 300 ranked matches, being a trial genius who knows advanced combo's, etc..
Of course, I'm defending the achievements since I like them, but I wouldn't spend money on playing games just for the chievo's, like that Avatar game.
Also, to those criticizing achievements in this topic:
Did you really read all the Live news items for your own enjoyment?
Was navigating to the forum from a games sheet much easier then pressing the "community" button on the top? And why bother those, if you're using the facebook App which shows the "home" front page news. ;D
Since Achievements and Trophy's are a thing of this generation of consoles, and more interesting to me then all the side-options not related to gaming, like facebook and music streaming, I think the Wii could do with them.
Though, with an online mode that utilises the Mii's to show of yourself as well, so achievement hunters have somewhere to brag and show off their l337 "skills" for getting all stars on Mario Galaxy. (Does the Wii have an online community support? I have no clue.)
To me, in a lot of ways Trophies/Achievements are an excuse to try out things you normally wouldn't. This ultimately makes you spend more time with the game and maximizing the game experience.
In my opinion, there's nothing to lose by including an award system. It's by no means an intrusive feature, and even though they are secondary rewards, they are rewards nonetheless.
with the exception of nintendo (and poss. capcom if you look at chronicles, zack and wikki and okami), most developers have struggled to produce anything of any real quality (consistantly) for the wii. the wii has some shining 3rd party jewls such as no more heroes, sam and max season one, lost winds and house of the dead overkill but on the whole, it's 3rd party output is pants. therefore i'd rather see the quality developers continue to focus on gameplay, rather than bonus modes out side of the main game, and the not so good ones not have an excuse to pack thier rubbish game with a bonus that will help thier product sell. As is evidenced by all of those who have bragged on this forum of having run up huge gamer scores on tekken 6, i think there are a worryingly large amount of people out there who buy games for easy acievements, just to bolster thier gamer scores. i'd rather have collectables and stickers alla Super smash bros than a pile of poop being produced for schievement spammers.
Actually, I read an article on Joystiq not to long ago that easy achievements DO boost sales of a game. And completion for that matter.
Gamers are more likely to play a game from start to finish if they get their rewards that show elsewhere.
I can definitely see your point about the third-party developers and quality over rewards, but I'll stick by the fact that I love getting my achievements/Trophy's/Wiinnerscore.
Hmmm, typing this made me realize that I'm happy that the Wii is without an award card though, since I'm not getting a new Wii until the good games start coming out (Tatsunoko, MHTri and No more Heroes 2) so that doesn't leave me standing inbetween a bunch of friends with millions of points. Because there's nothing breaking down my ego like getting an achievement, then looking at the Gamercards of Spike and Haradaku (who's no longer on these forums) who have points ranging halfway to millions. xD
junglist_dnb
27-11-09, 17:37
As mentioned before, I would never purchase a game just for achievements/trophies, PS didn't have anything like that yet I still enjoy games nowadays as much as back then, still I see achievements as something else to add to replay value, adds other challenges & opts you to play on harder settings, make things harder like completing games with one weapon (Dead Space) and so on.
In fact I find myself selling on games less now, yet if they weren't there I would find myself being more creative by setting my own challenges & ideas.
I dont go for achievements/trophies on first few playthroughs, I leave them until Im done doing my own stuff within the game, then Ill probably come back to the game after a week or two break from it, or longer to get some of them done, & with everything done I still come back for more of the game if I like it still.
Yet I find myself playing the Wii just as much as 360/PS3 without awards & stuff, even PSone & XBOX classics.
But it's only a secondary reward.Yes, and what is wrong with it?
The vast majority of achievements don't add length to a game, because they reward you, a second time, for doing something you have to do to actually complete the game.Those are "complete-o-meter" to know how much your friend played a game, it's obvious that the first goal in a game is to finish it and you get a reward in doing it...
When Phelps won 8 olympic competitions, they gave him 8 gold medal, and money...
Trophies on the PS3 also fit this, along with various PSP games that feature an accolade system.It's the same... They only changed the name.
Achievements & Trophies force you down yet another developer made pathThis phrase has no sense... Every game, EVER let the player do only what developers decided... You can't do whatever you want, every game put limits.
as I said before, if you start caring about Trophies/Achievements/Accolades more than you're interested in playing the actual game...well, that's gotta say something...Or maybe it's just the opposite of you wrote... You completely bypassed the "community" part of my message.
deathstench2009
28-11-09, 19:34
Poll seems pretty close. I gave your previous post a little more thought than before. It's kind of hypocritical of to suggest I play games for achievements since you have a great amount of achievements on this site. I suppose you can't compare a website forum with a game since the comparisons are completely different but doesn't the same principals apply when it's for achievements? Which would suggest you post on this site for achievements which I know you don't but that's what your post sounded to me. Can you see my point?
thezombiemessia
28-11-09, 20:13
Yes, and what is wrong with it?
I've never stated that there is anything wrong with it.
What I'm saying is that there seems, to me, to be little point in an Achievement system that only gives you secondary rewards.
Those are "complete-o-meter" to know how much your friend played a game, it's obvious that the first goal in a game is to finish it and you get a reward in doing it...
Yes, and then you get a secondary reward, and the only point that reward serves is to show it to other people and say "I've completed this game"
Which could just as easily be done by showing them you game save file, or your game statistics, or just by talking about the game.
When Phelps won 8 olympic competitions, they gave him 8 gold medal, and money...
Yes...your point?
It's the same... They only changed the name.
Well done.
This phrase has no sense... Every game, EVER let the player do only what developers decided... You can't do whatever you want, every game put limits.
This isn't the point I'm making.
What I'm saying is that games that say "We'll give you 10G if you go and find this ultra secret thing" are just feeding you down another path.
If, however, the devloper doesn't tell you about this "ultra secret thing" and you happen to discover it through your own exploration of the game, then (in my experience at least) it feels more rewarding.
Or maybe it's just the opposite of you wrote... You completely bypassed the "community" part of my message.
Forgot about =/= bypassed
Ofcourse there's a community spirit to the whole system, but it has become clear that it is a very broken, competitive and highly obsessive community.
Before achievements came about, people were still competetive, and would always try and beat their friends or some unknown persons High Score...but they'd do it by playing the game and having fun.
Now we get people that see somebody else's GamerScore or Trophie Collection or Accolade Collection, and instead of trying to get better at their games, they go out and rent/play as many games as possible to get a higher score.
Now, I'm not saying this applies to everybody, and I'm not even sure if it's a majority that do this, but these are still my feelings towards Achievements. In my honest opinion, they are a secondary reward that have lessened people's interest in the actual games they play, and increased interest only in the arbitrary rewards available to them.
Poll seems pretty close. I gave your previous post a little more thought than before. It's kind of hypocritical of to suggest I play games for achievements since you have a great amount of achievements on this site. I suppose you can't compare a website forum with a game since the comparisons are completely different but doesn't the same principals apply when it's for achievements? Which would suggest you post on this site for achievements which I know you don't but that's what your post sounded to me. Can you see my point?
I also happen to have a lot of Achievements and Trophies on my 360 and PS3.
All these are evident of is the fact that I have played these games, and happen to have gotten the rewards that were given for playing the gameas any normal person would.
What I said was that if you start caring more about the achievements/trophies more than the game itself, then that has to say something.
I'm not saying "If you have achievements, you must play for achieveents" I'm saying "If you play for achievements, then you probably don't derive much enjoyment out of the game as a whole."
deathstench2009
28-11-09, 22:51
My reason for suggesting the award system in the first place is over the award systems on PS3 and the X-box 360. It's the next genaration so we should embrace rather than put off. Zombie I understand your point which is pretty valid as people purchase hannah Montana for the ps3 to get easy trophies. I play games for the fun factor and I think I already made a topic about this issue of fun factor ages ago haha.
Yes...your point?Well, it seems you know it even if you never talked him...
Goodbye, if you keep talking about "stupid who rent games" for a gamer score and "forgetting" about other aspects, you are not interested to continue this thread.
thezombiemessia
29-11-09, 00:39
Well, it seems you know it even if you never talked him...
Goodbye, if you keep talking about "stupid who rent games" for a gamer score and "forgetting" about other aspects, you are not interested to continue this thread.
?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this thread not an opinion thread?
It's not factual, it's not 100% correct, etc, etc.
I'm stating my opinion that Achievements and Trophies have detracted from the fun of Games.
I fully understand why Achievements are a popular thing...humans are naturally competetive, especially at the age that most gamers are (mid-20's to early 40's), and Achievements & Trophies fuel that competition.
On top of this, Achievements and Trophies have become a defining factor on which console you will buy a game for. If your score is higher on the 360, then you'll tend to buy games more for the 360 than invest in PS3 games (I'm talking about Multi-Console titles here, not exclusive titles), so you can increase your preffered score.
However, I just see them as pointless. I find them especially pointless to add on to a console several years after it has been released. Sony still struggle with Trophies, and Nintendo would have a very hard time trying to incorporate an award system onto the Wii at this late a date.
Also, I ask you not to make up things that I have said. At no point have I said "Stupid people who rent games." There is no need to be rude.
As for my forgetting about a particular part of your post, this doesn't prove dis-interest on my part, it shows that I forgot about a part of your post. Perhaps you'd like me to inform you of what is going on in my personal life whilst I write posts, that way you'll know whether or not I should have forgotten to reply to something you've said?
Once again, I present - perspective.
Some see achievements as something to aspire towards, others see them as a method of forcing compulsive behavior over meaningless numbers.
I see achievements as being as good as the developers, yes they present us with rules on top of rules, but these can be fun, it's not always a case of "10G - Opened door", some of the harder ones can be incredibly fun to obtain, Left 4 Dead for example, made me do things I never thought possible, the rewards are meager, but the self satisfaction that the game has told me I'm awesome, priceless. And some of the imagination used is amusing in its own right, even Fable 2's cheeky descriptions of what was achieved brought a smile to my face.
Of course it can be abused by the overly competitive and obsessive, but it's really what you think of it that counts, even if there is an idiot that says "u hav [number]g in [game] u suk" , but if it truly doesn't matter, you'll think to yourself "so what?", if the enjoyment you get out of games is purely the game itself, what do the numbers matter?
I honestly have no intention of buying a game purely for achievements, I buy Xbox360 games because they are cheaper at the same quality and have support to play music as well as making the most out of my paid subscription, Achievements ultimately just sweeten the deal for me, but are they essential? no, not at all, since the games I want are enjoyed on the same grounds I wanted them in the first place.
Gamerscore doesn't matter to me, but I'll still keep trying everything in game, even the achievements, just to get the most out of it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this thread not an opinion thread?If you want to write an opinion, you can do it just once... you don't need to write it multiple times, if you do, you want to put your idea in others' mind...
At no point have I said "Stupid people who rent games." There is no need to be rude.No, you don't. I added "stupid" because is what I think...(to do it just for points).
Oh please, II Arrows, you're honestly expecting people to take your points and give you credibility when you come out with a post like that?
TZM hasn't repeated himself, only fine tuned what he has previously said to get his point across, you've not met it with a reasonable response, instead, said "Goodbye" yet keep coming back to pick a fight.
Also, isn't this thread about an award system on Wii? not TZM's opinion? Since you're not directly utilising the topic as a point to back up what you're saying.
I'd say no, but there's no option that fits exactly what I mean.
The 360 had them, people enjoyed them, then elitests got obsessive and it all got a bit dry, Sony decided it'd be a good idea, added trophies, half the games don't support them, people complained, elitests got obsessive. If they're brought to the Wii it'll be the same fiasco on a console that's rather big for party games which don't fit the grind of other games.