Metal Gear Solid 4 - Completed (Spoilers Welcome)

[Triple Seven]

As the title says, this topic is for those who completed Metal Gear Solid 4. No need to set up spoiler warnings here.

edit:

Yup, but I guess she [Natasha Romanenko] was important to at least mention, since she used the profits from her book on Shadow Moses to fund Snake and Otacons Philanthropy.

I found bigger problems. Prior to GotP has Naomi ever met Hal Emmerich?

[Parjay]

Heres a question:

Big Boss explains that Ocelot underwent treatment via nanomachine and hynosis to become the mental doppleganger of Liquid Snake, in order to properly fool the Patriot A.I. However, Big Boss only wakes up at the end when the AI is destroyed, so how does he actually know this? Considering, that its explained that BB was kept in a mental nothingless.

[Triple Seven]

Thats a good one. Beats me. One could argue that he was able to access the information after he awoke, or he gained it during his state of sleep without being aware of it. However these arent smooth explanations.

[Parjay]

Thing is, if he did then he got it from the Patriots AI - which he couldnt, as the Patroits were being fooled by Ocelot.

Heres another one:

BB says that EVA and her clan found Liquid and Solidus body and reconstructed BB with various parts ... Yet Eva jumps into the fire when the obviously Solidus body is burning .... why? She had to know it was Solidus since she reconstructed (or provided the body), and that corpse had its right eye intact (BB lost his right, Solidus lost his left). So her jumping into the fire ... makes no sense at all.


I found bigger problems. Prior to GotP has Naomi ever met Hal Emmerich?

I dont believe so.

[Triple Seven]

Thing is, if he did then he got it from the Patriots AI - which he couldnt, as the Patroits were being fooled by Ocelot.

Heres another one:

BB says that EVA and her clan found Liquid and Solidus body and reconstructed BB with various parts ... Yet Eva jumps into the fire when the obviously Solidus body is burning .... why? She had to know it was Solidus since she reconstructed (or provided the body), and that corpse had its right eye intact (BB lost his right, Solidus lost his left). So her jumping into the fire ... makes no sense at all.


I found bigger problems. Prior to GotP has Naomi ever met Hal Emmerich?

I dont believe so.

Patriots AI: Well, GW may have been informed. When the system collapsed, got reorganized by Sunnys virus, that information may have been accesible.

Eva: Thats an even better one. Ive a 9 hour gaming marathon hanging over me so take whatever I say with a grain of salt. You seem to be right. But that big a mistake?

So they never met? Yet she practically is in love with him the first time they meet? To me it appears to be a mere device to have Otacon loose another love interest and do the usual crying. Oh, and that betrayal thing. and then Meryl and Johnny? What the heck?

P.S.:

Out of curiosity I started another play through. During the install process I got a its past 3 a.m. you shouldnt be playing-warning.

[Parjay]

Hehe.

Ill have to sleep on these ones, then carefully analyze the dialogs on the next play thorough. One more thing I find interesting, is even though Eva mentions Solidus as the perfect clone, she does not seem to indicate that she born him, and only mentions giving birth to her twins Solid and Liquid.

One thing on Eva and her fire: Big Boss intentionally exposed himself to Snake at the end, knowing that hed die of Fox Die. He also talked on about going from 100 to 0 etc. Perhaps Eva was part of this all along and she too wanted to die, so it could go back to 0.

[Triple Seven]

And Raiden... totally overdone. Gray Fox in Shadow Moses (MGS1) was well handled, but this... just to much and not stylish, in my opinion. But yeah, if you dont have arms any more you need to bring a leather coat.

P.S.:

But Eva cried in agony, she didnt want that to happen, did she?

[Parjay]

Actually, if BB knows Naomi had made a new Fox Die for the Patriots, and that Fox Die killed Eva (or would have if she didnt die from wounds first), then Eva probably knew shed be dead soon anyhow after meeting Snake.

[Triple Seven]

But Eva cried in agony, she didnt want that to happen, did she?

[Member_of_STARS]

Some valid concerns, however, if you think about it, you can explain every one of them via clever speculation. They are not nearly in the same league as magic elevator or shattered window kind of obvious plotholes in RE.

Relax, Im more interested in speculations SOLVING these puzzles. Lets hear it.

Im still processing the emotions but heres two I figured out.

-EVA wasnt trying to save Big Boss, she was trying to save her son.
-Meryl got an epyphony (sp?), throughout the whole game the RAT PT 01 was looking down on Johnny, but factually, they never knew that he was just an ordinary guy thrown into combat. He was never a soldier, and the lack of nanomachines to control him, the experience and emotions (fear, terror, most people wouldnt imagine having fear that would make you soil yourself, its a powerful state of mind, complete shock and state of demoralization) he saw on the battlefield, tore him, an unprepared person, out. When he saved Meryl, she understood that he was just a wrong person in the wrong situation, so the comedic, humorous moments got clear. Imagine being a girl and meeting Johnny, Akiba, in a bar. He was a passionate and noble person, with his heart in the right place. In a sense, it was Otacon vs Snake all over again. And where with them frienship bloomed, with Johnny and Meryl... well...

I love it, it gives so much value to the (at first) seemingly cheesy moment.

[Parjay]

But Eva cried in agony, she didnt want that to happen, did she?

Perhaps, its possible. I still dont buy why she would jump into the fire though, could it be that it was Solidus body, a son of hers?, but she also didnt claim to give birth to Solidus, and only took responsibility for birthing the twins. Hmm interesting. But its more likely that Eva wanted to make the appearance that it really was BB so Liquid wouldnt suspect anything and so forth.

Is it just me or is Kojima shying away from the supernatural side of the bosses in the games? In my mind im certain that in MGS2 it was meant to be the REAL Liquid, but he decided to Retcon that in MGS4.

[Dante2014]

Ive not completed the game yet, but ive got the strategy guide, and thought you guys would like to know so fun stuff you can do during the game.

Act 1 - Red Zone - Statues
Press triangle repeatedly when your imitating a statue.

Act 2 - Research Lab - Laughing Beauty boss fight
During the fight, lie on the bed.

Act 2 - Mountain Trail - MGS2 Nostalgia
Take the left path to reach the river, you should find a circle of short grass like a crop circle, stand in the middle.

Act 4 - Shadow Moses - MGS1 Nostalgia
Equip the camera and Sorrow doll and youll start to see ghosts, there are 30 in total.

Act 5 - Liquid Ocelot boss fight - Third phase
When Liquid Ocelot performs a choke hold, dont resist, his feelings for Snake will become unfortunately clear.

Any Act
Kill over 50 soldiers in a single act, a certain spirit medium will not be happy.

Theres plenty of other stuff but I dont want to ruin that, enjoy.

[Ryu Kazama]

As I thought, the Psycho Mantis scene is slightly different depending on whether you use the SIXAXIS or Dual Shock 3. Its not all that different. He just screams No virbration either! for SIXAXIS and Rumble is back! for Dual Shock 3. I used the DS3 first time round.

[Parjay]

Was anyone else getting Otacons quick codec through a headset? I liked that feature, but it was well wasted on the useles codec of mgs4.

[The Possessed]

I just finished the game a few minutes ago.

Plotwise I was pretty impressed with the general unfolding of the story. Though Ive gotta say Im not totally keen on the way they tied everything from MGS3s universe to MGS1 and 2s. For example Sigint being the DARPA Cheif and Para Medic being Dr. Clarke seemed uneccesary. Bringing back Big Boss yet again though, it was a good point to have him back for a final word but the whole cloning and revival story went far too overboard, that includes Raiden aswell.

I also have to say this is the most depressing game Ive ever played in my life, I was glad there was some joy in the end though. It was just getting a bit too much at points.

The gameplay I felt was great, however there seemed to me to be a large ratio difference in gameplay to cut scenes, compared to the cut scenes there seemed to be sod all gameplay. Was there even a couple of hours of play there if you didnt die?

Still although this highlights the negative Im still glad with how MGS has gone out, all wrapped up nicely despite my negatives. A shame to see old Solid Snake go though, MGS1 (Original) remaiins my favourite game of all time, paired with one other PlayStation game.

[Triple Seven]

Any thoughts on Meryl marrying Johnny?

[Parjay]

Only that it was as bad as Darth Vader making C3PO

Also, I hear that Otacon mentions Natasha Romanenko on the codec in the tank hanger of shadow moses.

[Member_of_STARS]

Wasnt nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Even though it was potentially cringeworthy, I caught myself smiling and being satisfied at the conclusion. The only thing I didnt like, was that they killed like a 50 of those FROGS, a far more better effect would have been, if theyd just kept them at bay with supressive fire.

[Joe]

Ok firstly:
Eva jumping into the fire. This was Solidus body. Eva jumped in thinking it was Big Boss. As obviously if you watched the flash backs and listened to her story you would have realised she was in love with him and that is why she decided to have his cloned children. As she thought it would bring them together. Which it did not do. Solidus was in this state as Big Boss explains at the end because they used parts of him to rebuild Big Boss. And the body being thrown into the fire was for Snake to help drive him forward.
Secondly:
Johnny was a Genome Soldier. That is why when he goes to save Meryl at the end he is a fully capable fighter. And as stated before Johnny didnt fit in with the rest of the team because he was no linked to them via S.O.P. The wedding was pretty cheesy but it gave the opportunity to see where other characters where heading.
Thridly:
Cause I know you are all thinking it. Liquid Ocelot was just Ocelot. And he had prepared mentally and through nanomachines to act like Liquid to fool the Patriots system. Also why didnt Ocelot just destory the A.I himself and have it over with? Because him and Niaomi I am guessing were unable to create a virus capable of destorying the Patriots control but leaving the vital parts of society in tact. Which is why she went to Otacon and Snake.

And I think that it was a nice touch that at the end, Snake who we thought was the only person free of control, seems to be the person most controlled by the Patriots.

[Parjay]

Ok firstly:
Eva jumping into the fire. This was Solidus body. Eva jumped in thinking it was Big Boss. As obviously if you watched the flash backs and listened to her story you would have realised she was in love with him and that is why she decided to have his cloned children.

Read all the replies above joe, is obvious Eva knew that was really Solidus body - since she used it to put Big Boss back together. Also note that Eva does not claim to birth Solidus the perfect clone, but simply Snake and Liquid. Eva knew she had to die along with the other Patriots, and she knew Snakes FOXDIE was killing her anyhow, so she simply put on a scene to make it look like Big Boss.

[Triple Seven]

So what does the rest of you think about the lack of codec sequences?

[James Mitchell]

The lack of codec sequences was somewhat of a letdown for me - perhaps the biggest outside of a few unanswered questions. I only ever called Otacon during boss battles to hear his thoughts, but I was more interested in hearing what Rose had to say. I feel her role in MGS4 is relevant because a lot of the games central themes revolved around Psyche - that is Snakes psyche diminishing with his age and the idea that each of the boss battles reflect psychological disorder. but I used to always love calling up different people during boss fights to see what they think, and perhaps even get some more information on their origins (Ill never forget the origin speech for Mantis from Naomi, how he dove into someones mind and took on the persona of that person, who was a serial killer himself, or how Sniper Wolf could wait for days, weeks even months for her prey.)

Having completed the game three times now I must say I am impressed. Ill post some of my impressions from other forums into here, but I wont comment on any speculation since I really havent been following the line of conversation on this topic in particular. I actually own three copies of the game, mainly because I was wanting the Yoji Shinakawa box art. Ive got a standard US version, Limited Edition US version and the PAL version too. Limited edition is of course my favourite box art.

To be honest though, the first thing I noticed when I first booted up MGS4 was that it was very easy to run and gun. And plus, with the game throwing in excess of 50+ weapons at you (including some very devastatingly powerful weapons from both previous MGS games and other Kojima games *wink*) its as if the game wants you to be loud and gunning. Although this doesnt detract from the gameplay, as I still approached it as a stealth game, there was much more room for error in this case (OctoCamo, particularly in easier difficulties, made it very easy too.)

The story is definitely ambitious, especially after viewing the conclusion of MGS2 and Snake Eater, but after completing Guns of the Patriots Ive gotta be honest and say that Kojima has pretty much explained everything that anyone could ask. Mind you, one glaring example is the whereabouts of Nastasha Romanenko. God knows what shes doing - Id assume she was on the run from the Patriots after writing that book but it wouldve been nice to receive closure on her story, since we did for everyone else.

A lot of the battles arent rehashes per se but as I said before play on a heavy amount of nostalgia (and being a huge fan, I am happy with them). Elements of previous bosses are all evident in the Beauty & The Beast Corps

Laughing Octopus - Cyborg Ninja, Solidus Snake, The Fear
Raging Raven - Harrier & Hind-D
Raging Wolf - Fortune, Sniper Wolf & The End
Screaming Mantis - Psycho Mantis

They are definitely better than MGS3 (I too thought Fury, Pain and Fear were very uninspired, and that The End was over-rated but enjoyable), and I also enjoyed battling them more than MGS2 as well. Nothing will beat MGS though. One thing I wouldve liked to see was the implementation of some bosses that were reminiscent of those in the pre-Solid games, such as Running Man, Dirty Duck and Four Horsemen. Regardless, I still think the boss battles were pretty enjoyable, but I feel a bit weird because the MGS series DID start with the originals back on MSX. I find them to be memorable. The way theyre presented is interesting at best and the way they are characterised will make me remember them. The battles themselves, as I said before, played on Nostalgia (especially Crying Wolf). I think it was an interesting concept to add back story to each of the members following their demise, since they were too fucked up to do so themselves. It kinda made them more human, I thought, and although not exceedingly interesting to an average people I found it interesting from a psychological perspective.

Something else I was a bit disappointed with was the use of Nanomachines to explain everything. Nanomachines played such a minor role (relatively) in the original MGS, with Naomi explaining they simply allowed her team to keep track of his vitals and allowed them to administer pain killers in the event of pain. Well, when I think of it, theyre a much more primative SOP. To be honest, I assumed that Vamp just had some weird power for surviving following his history in Romania, and Fortune I can only assume was telekinetic for some reason. What was the perhaps biggest disappointment was the truth about Liquid Ocelot. I thought theyd be tapping into the fact that The Sorrow, a channeller of the dead, was Ocelots father and that would explain Liquids take over of Ocelot. Instead they resort to Nanomachines explaining said behaviour AND also why Vamp couldnt die. It kinda of removes the mystery and intrigue from the characters, albeit it does attempt to make the game realistic (and I use that term very sparingly in the MGS universe).

I seriously though, would like to know what is going on with Nastasha. All I remember reading was she used the royalties from In The Darkness of Shadow Moses to set up Philanthropy and alledgedly recruited Otacon, Snake and Mei Ling to her cause. Snake even mentions that he doesnt know what happened to her after the Shadow Moses incident and that She is probably still a heavy smoker. The only logical conclusion I can deduce is that she is on the run from the Patriots because of her book?

In the end though, I was very satisfied. As a whole package, Id give it a 9 out of 10 with the only reason its not perfect being that I feel some questions have not been answered or at least explored. Feel free to correct me on these.

1.) My concerns with the whereabouts of Nastasha
2.) The origins of the BB Corps - who recruited them? Who convinced them to become what they are? Were the suits made by Tokugawa like Raidens? Was it the same doctor from Metal Gear 2, who implanted Raiden, that augmented the BBs units?
3.) Are the FROGs even human? Why do they disintegrate?

I know, theyre not huge in the big scheme of things, but I still reckon they couldve covered that, since they covered so much.

In regards to the cutscenes, the length and frequency did not bother me.

One thing that was weird about MGS4 was that I was really freakin emotional when I was playing it. I played through the whole thing thinking that Snake was going to die, and there was a lot of foreshadowing that made that happen. To top that off, several elements made me almost shed a few tears, towards the end though I found myself really getting into it.

- The whole idea of Sunny. I felt sorry for her because she will never meet her parents. Kojima did such a good job personalising her from the very beginning, where no one wants to try her eggs. It had me laughing but really making me feel sad because shes never going to meet her parents or get a proper life (albeit she kind of does in the end). She was a very cute character - I was a huge fan. Every time I saw her I was so sad - just her face. Its so hard to explain but so amazing I felt to touched by a character who featured only in that game.
- The microwave scene is the best and most poignant scene Ive ever seen in a movie or game....full stop. Music works beautifully too, combined with the interspersed scenes of everyone failing, it made me feel really sad to see it all coming to an end.
- EVA! I hated her after the end of MGS3, but after seeing her in action again I feel she was redeemed. The funniest thing I remember was during the bike scene she was like Thats my boy after we took down some of those mini-Ravens. Gotta love that. Eva died being one of my favourite characters in the series, especially for what she did.
- Snake shooting himself Tears appeared
- Same when Otacon turned away from Sunny and said Snake had a hard life
- When Big Boss says he was proud of Snake and respected him as a soldier.

AS for Raiden - dont feel he was needed overly. He kept dying but coming back and it was just getting lame. I liked his Epilogue though - made me happy for him since hed had a really hard life up until now, and finally has a chance to do something with it.

I really got into the MGS series from beginning to end (more so than the original MSX version) and I am very sad to see the series finally come to a close.

The only REAL part of the gameplay I did not enjoy was the beginning of Eastern Europe - especially when I finished Extreme mode - it was way too tedious.

WOW! What a big post >_>

[Triple Seven]

WOW! What a big post >_>

And a very good one. I have to think about a couple of things before I can reply but I appreciate your input a lot.

[Parjay]

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/06/18/metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-patriots-database-on-the-way/

Edit: Europe gets shafted. Again.

[James Mitchell]

Its really strange. I downloaded the US database, and although it didnt detect my PAL-AU save file it DID give me options to read the database in French, German or Dutch. So its all ready - wonder why Sony decided to NOT release it.

Still, when my US version of MGS4 comes I will create a save file on that and then over-write it with a completed one, just so that I can read the blacked out stuff.

First impressions though - its very nice. Clean, well set out and the relationship tree is amazing! Theres a lot of Yoji Shinakawa artwork that we havent seen before, too. I would strongly be in favour of an MGS4 artbook at some point.

[Stridus]

One question, what happend to the missing baby of The boss that was taken away from her?

[Member_of_STARS]

One question, what happend to the missing baby of The boss that was taken away from her?












SPOILERS! OMFG NOES! SPOILERS!








































Ocelot is Boss and Sorrows baby. It explains why Naked Snake spared him on many-a-occasions.

[The Possessed]

Naked Snake never was aware during MGS3 that Ocelot was The Boss son. The explanation is simply what Snake said Because hes still young, it was probably also marked because of a kind of respect Snake had for Ocelot as a soldier.

[Parjay]

Whats the evidence of that by the way, Possessed? I cant recall any evidence of Ocelot being the son.

[Member_of_STARS]

Naked Snake never was aware during MGS3 that Ocelot was The Boss son. The explanation is simply what Snake said Because hes still young, it was probably also marked because of a kind of respect Snake had for Ocelot as a soldier.

Youre thinking about it WAY too literally.

Ocelot shared The Boss facial traits, like a son to a mother would, and you could ALWAYS see the unease, every time he had to explain why he let Ocelot go. As a matter of fact, if you look at how he was teaching the kid, it was almost as if he took over the role of a stepfather. Maternity instinct is one thing, perhaps theres a faternity instinct we dont know about aswell?

It explains everything, has a charming feel to it.

Besides, the respect for a soldier does not apply here, as he has killed hundreds of them. What made them different from him? When we take the obvious route- nothing. Except this is MGS3, Kojima, a lot of intelligent storytelling. ;)

Parjay, you were Jlikew00t, right?

The evidence is the story EVA tells you if you contact her in the tunnels before The Pain battle. She tells a story about him being born to a mother who gave birth on the battlefield. The mother got hit in the guts, and had a scar the shape of a snake. The Boss has this scar, and I think it was Zero, who said that she gave birth to a boy, on the battlefield, and had to perform a Caesar cut (I dont remember how its named in English) on herself, which is where she got the scar from. Its all really a bunch of obvious clues thrown at you, so you could come to the conclusion yourself. After all, all Snake does is repeat the 2 last words of every sentence, all the time, haha. Anyway, Zero or Boss also say that her kid grew up with the Philosophers, and Ocelot has been with Volgin for a long time, who... technically, is a decendent of the Philosophers (or - Philosophers will, if you will).

[Dante2014]

Whats the evidence of that by the way, Possessed? I cant recall any evidence of Ocelot being the son.

Ocelot is the son of The Boss and The Sorrow, the product of their last moment together.

[Member_of_STARS]

Interesting tidbit, it looks like Dr Clarkes gender wasnt retconned afterall.

[James Mitchell]

Interesting tidbit, it looks like Dr Clarkes gender wasnt retconned afterall.
When was it speculated that she was retconned in terms of gender? The official Japanese release mentions her to be female and the western release doesnt even mention gender at all. =/

[Member_of_STARS]

Interesting tidbit, it looks like Dr Clarkes gender wasnt retconned afterall.
When was it speculated that she was retconned in terms of gender? The official Japanese release mentions her to be female and the western release doesnt even mention gender at all. =/

In this very same thread. Nothing official though, but the confusion arose from Japanese languages peculiarities.

[Parjay]

Interesting tidbit, it looks like Dr Clarkes gender wasnt retconned afterall.
When was it speculated that she was retconned in terms of gender? The official Japanese release mentions her to be female and the western release doesnt even mention gender at all. =/

Mostly because the Western version of MGS has Naomi refer to Clarke as a man.

[James Mitchell]

Ahh it appears it was not a retcon, nor was it a mistranslation.

From the Metal Gear Solid 4 Database (Para-Medics Entry, Second Page): -

Constantly immersed in her research, she seldom exposed herself to others and left almost no data behind after her death. As a result, Naomi Hunter was convinced that Dr. Clark was a man.

[Member_of_STARS]

Ahh it appears it was not a retcon, nor was it a mistranslation.

From the Metal Gear Solid 4 Database (Para-Medics Entry, Second Page): -

Constantly immersed in her research, she seldom exposed herself to others and left almost no data behind after her death. As a result, Naomi Hunter was convinced that Dr. Clark was a man.

Hahahaha! Brilliant! Instead of retconning or changing the plot, they simply gave an in-game explanation to a development mis-shot.

Brilliant. No sarcasm.

[Parjay]

LOL thats a piss poor excuse they came up with.

[Bannik]

I like the fact that in Act 4, you get to go back to Shadow Moses to the Civilian Base, but I was immediately able to pick out design differences in the Base, there are obvious design differences between the Base in the original PSX version, which is emulated in the game as part of Snakes dream and the Base in MGS4 graphics, this disappointed me.

What do you think about the cheesy jokes about disc swapping? Also controller switching in the Mantis fight?

[Member_of_STARS]

What do you think about the cheesy jokes about disc swapping? Also controller switching in the Mantis fight?

Its called Kojima. Its his own personal touch of funnies, shows how he actually appreciates MGS players and fans by leaving something personal in the game. The fact that noone has ever complained about it, means that most people not only get the humour, they also appreciate it. You dont really see Eastern developers connect themselves with their audience (the dev process is separated from the fanbase, who has been here when Thrudd was an admin, probably has an idea of what Im talking about, as hes touched the subject a few times).

Its obvious that at least when it comes to the most obvious RL references, we can count them off as non-canonical.

Personally, I didnt mind them, although I did smirk at the PS3 disk swapping part.

[Triple Seven]

The fact that noone has ever complained about it, means that most people not only get the humour, they also appreciate it.

Not necessarily. It means that people accept it. Some, of course, may even appreciate it.

[James Mitchell]

I like the fact that in Act 4, you get to go back to Shadow Moses to the Civilian Base, but I was immediately able to pick out design differences in the Base, there are obvious design differences between the Base in the original PSX version, which is emulated in the game as part of Snakes dream and the Base in MGS4 graphics, this disappointed me.
What differences? I didnt notice anything overly different, but you also have to remember that there is a notable time passed since these events occured. Everything is broken / breaking down and decaying, thats the feeling Kojima really wanted to convey (and one of the reason there are little to no enemies in the whole complex)

[Member_of_STARS]

The fact that noone has ever complained about it, means that most people not only get the humour, they also appreciate it.

Not necessarily. It means that people accept it. Some, of course, may even appreciate it.

Silly semantics.

[Triple Seven]

The fact that noone has ever complained about it, means that most people not only get the humour, they also appreciate it.

Not necessarily. It means that people accept it. Some, of course, may even appreciate it.

Silly semantics.

Incorrect. Theres a huge difference.

I dont find most of the humorous parts involving Johnny entertaining, quite the opposite. However Ive gotten used to that kind of jokes and if the rest of the game is of high quality then I think Hideo Kojima deserves to add these things and with them a personal touch. Hence I dont complain, even when I dont appreciate the humor as such and could do without it.

[Member_of_STARS]

The fact that noone has ever complained about it, means that most people not only get the humour, they also appreciate it.

Not necessarily. It means that people accept it. Some, of course, may even appreciate it.

Silly semantics.

Incorrect. Theres a huge difference.

I dont find most of the humorous parts involving Johnny entertaining, quite the opposite. However Ive gotten used to that kind of jokes and if the rest of the game is of high quality then I think Hideo Kojima deserves to add these things and with them a personal touch. Hence I dont complain, even when I dont appreciate the humor as such and could do without it.

Semantics as in- when I said MOST PEOPLE, I also left room for a minority such as you.

Quit arguing over miniscule details.

[Triple Seven]

The fact that noone has ever complained about it, means that most people not only get the humour, they also appreciate it.

Not necessarily. It means that people accept it. Some, of course, may even appreciate it.

Silly semantics.

Incorrect. Theres a huge difference.

I dont find most of the humorous parts involving Johnny entertaining, quite the opposite. However Ive gotten used to that kind of jokes and if the rest of the game is of high quality then I think Hideo Kojima deserves to add these things and with them a personal touch. Hence I dont complain, even when I dont appreciate the humor as such and could do without it.

Semantics as in- when I said MOST PEOPLE, I also left room for a minority such as you.

Quit arguing over miniscule details.

Once again - still -, youre wrong. How do you know that most people do appreciate it while only a minority merely accepts it. It could be vice versa. As a matter of fact, Bannik implied he didnt like it, you said you dont mind them and I dont like most of it either. You claim that most people appreciate it. I have shown that may very well not be the case. Miniscule details.

[Parjay]

Its better just to ignore, TS.

Heres one: Big Momma explains to Snake who the legendary hero The Boss is. Yet the game opens with Snake at The Bosses grave.

[Member_of_STARS]

The fact that noone has ever complained about it, means that most people not only get the humour, they also appreciate it.

Not necessarily. It means that people accept it. Some, of course, may even appreciate it.

Silly semantics.

Incorrect. Theres a huge difference.

I dont find most of the humorous parts involving Johnny entertaining, quite the opposite. However Ive gotten used to that kind of jokes and if the rest of the game is of high quality then I think Hideo Kojima deserves to add these things and with them a personal touch. Hence I dont complain, even when I dont appreciate the humor as such and could do without it.

Semantics as in- when I said MOST PEOPLE, I also left room for a minority such as you.

Quit arguing over miniscule details.

Once again - still -, youre wrong. How do you know that most people do appreciate it while only a minority merely accepts it. It could be vice versa. As a matter of fact, Bannik implied he didnt like it, you said you dont mind them and I dont like most of it either. You claim that most people appreciate it. I have shown that may very well not be the case. Miniscule details.

Once again. Pure semantics. In 3 separate forums, this issue has been brought up the very first time. If you go to Youtube.com and check the comments to the disk swapping video, youll see that the vast majority of viewers actually like the humour, and the videos have an average of 4+/5 rating.

So no, youre the minority. Youre wrong. Now, feel free to caution me for whatever reason you see fit.

[Parjay]

Images I took with the camera:

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4556/middleeastmillenniumparvh4.th.jpg (http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=middleeastmillenniumparvh4.jpg)

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2014/middleeastredzone1cn6.th.jpg (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=middleeastredzone1cn6.jpg)

then again when I decided to perv up some Beauties ROFL

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1627/southamericaresearchlabrc1.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=southamericaresearchlabrc1.jpg)

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/8083/easterneuropeechosbeacoth6.th.jpg (http://img356.imageshack.us/my.php?image=easterneuropeechosbeacoth6.jpg)

[Triple Seven]

Once again - still -, youre wrong. How do you know that most people do appreciate it while only a minority merely accepts it. It could be vice versa. As a matter of fact, Bannik implied he didnt like it, you said you dont mind them and I dont like most of it either. You claim that most people appreciate it. I have shown that may very well not be the case. Miniscule details.

Once again. Pure semantics. In 3 separate forums, this issue has been brought up the very first time. If you go to Youtube.com and check the comments to the disk swapping video, youll see that the vast majority of viewers actually like the humour, and the videos have an average of 4+/5 rating.

So no, youre the minority. Youre wrong. Now, feel free to caution me for whatever reason you see fit.

As I have expressed people who (merely) accept it wont complain. Naturally they wont express that they love it. When a number of people expressed that they love it this doesnt mean that they are the majority. There may be twice as many people who (merely) accept it and dont participate at all. At any rate if youre still unable to see - or admit - that youre wrong by now you never will be able to. Therefore Ill leave it at that.


Did you take photos during boss fights as well, Parjay? I still have to sort the ones I have taken.

[Parjay]

Yup. Same here, Ive maxed the 100 now.

[Member_of_STARS]

As I have expressed people who (merely) accept it wont complain. Naturally they wont express that they love it. When a number of people expressed that they love it this doesnt mean that they are the majority. There may be twice as many people who (merely) accept it and dont participate at all. At any rate if youre still unable to see - or admit - that youre wrong by now you never will be able to. Therefore Ill leave it at that.


Merely accept doesnt exactly mean that they dislike it. It merely suggests that they aknowledge the humour- thus appreciate it. Appreciation doesnt mean that they love it to death, it merely means that they recognize the humour and see and understand why it was present.

If you want me to FACTUALLY prove youre wrong, you can ask me some Youtube.com video links and ratings under those as proof. You havent shown a shred of evidence that you are in fact, not a minority.

So, until you prove that youre right, we can truly leave the argument at that- youre wrong.

Byes.

Amusingly, this was never about whos right or wrong (until you felt touched), its always been about a kid arguing over semantics. So typical of you.

[Triple Seven]

Something different.

What encounters can be won by the militia? I was able to win all major encounters in the city, escept for the one in front of the hotel. I also wasnt able to win the battle around the confinement facility and the mansion. The power plant battle I did win.

Has anyone else been facing endless respawning of PMC troups? I found it particularly problematic when the respawn point conflicted with my sneaking route.

[Parjay]

Yup I saw a lot of crap at confinement. I took out everyone and replacement guy would run down the a few seconds later. This continued on for wave after wave.

[Triple Seven]

Yup I saw a lot of crap at confinement. I took out everyone and replacement guy would run down the a few seconds later. This continued on for wave after wave.

Precisely. I even blew up every vehicle and cleared every room/tower. Thought I may have missed something.