View Full Version : BHA member in deportation and death penalty threat
thezombiemessia
13-09-09, 13:45
http://www.humanism.org.uk/news/view/355
Hussain Muradi, a BHA member and activist of the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain was detained on 10 September and is facing imminent deportation to Afghanistan where he will face the death penalty for 'apostasy'.
As part of his principled secular stance, Hussain has publicly renounced Islam, a renunciation punishable by death under Sharia law. Hussain believes that everyone has the simple right to leave a religion.
Previously Hussain has said:
I was not born to be a Muslim and be afraid of God and more importantly I did not sign an agreement with him/her/it to worship him. As a child, religion has been forced upon me. I have been forced to pray, fast, etc... In Afghanistan where I was living, questioning the existence of god or religion is deemed blasphemy and punishable by stoning to death. Now in the UK I have the opportunity and courage to declare who I am. I am a free man without any extra bondage on me.
Hussain was detained after being summoned to the Gillingham police station in Kent on September 10. Discussing his situation with members of the Council of Ex-Muslims on his way to the police station, Hussain said: "If I went back to Afghanistan myself, I would call it a suicide; if I am sent back to Afghanistan, I would see it as an execution."
E-mail your support here:
http://campaign.publicaffairsbriefing.co.uk/emailsupport.aspx?cid=8aebac88-4bb4-4e82-8ed6-814d3563f794
Please e-mail your support, as this man is innocent and should not have his life thrown away for choosing to turn away from Islam.
His only "crime" is that of leaving Islam.
At the moment, they've gone so far as to delay the deportation, but that isn't anything amazing as of yet. He could still be deported, and if he is...then he will be executed.
Nabil Mishima
13-09-09, 14:16
Islam was kinda "forced" upon me I mean I couldn't ask to convert to another faith otherwise I would be scolded. But that is harsh........
TZM, in UK will I get exectued for leaving Islam?
thezombiemessia
13-09-09, 14:23
No, in the UK you would not be killed, executed, arrested or anything.
However, strict Islamic followers that may follow Sharia Law would probably want to.
I honestly don't know much about the Islamic culture within England, so I don't know how they would react.
Islam was kinda "forced" upon me I mean I couldn't ask to convert to another faith otherwise I would be scolded. But that is harsh........
TZM, in UK will I get exectued for leaving Islam?
Changing religion is not a crime in any western country, but i would be careful if i were you. You know how fanatic can be some religious people when they hear that one of them had converted.
But to the question, certainly not.
Sorry for telling you my opinion even if you asked TZM :)
Nabil Mishima
13-09-09, 14:26
No, in the UK you would not be killed, executed, arrested or anything.
However, strict Islamic followers that may follow Sharia Law would probably want to.
I honestly don't know much about the Islamic culture within England, so I don't know how they would react.
Could it be to do with strict laws in Afghanistan? The muslims in UK wnated Sharia law to be introduced here you know.
So if that happened, yeah I wouldn't be allowed to leave Islam. We don't integrate into society or so I'm told in UK. Do you think this is true?
@ Bobafet, that worries me......
My advice: dont let them know you left Islam altough im not familiar with Islamic habits.
For example, christian people dont need to go to church or pray to be christian, is it possible someone you dont want him to know would easily find out you left Islam? Is it apparent when you leave it?
Nabil Mishima
13-09-09, 14:35
I don't want to swerve from the topic. But I can't tell my parents and their so called 'friends' who 'think' they're our family will scold me........
So I think it's really sick if the man himself said he wants to be free. What right has religion got that can take that away from him?
thezombiemessia
13-09-09, 14:36
Sharia Law, IMHO, is a sham of a Legal System, and should never be accepted in the UK.
Sharia Law preaches hatred and fear.
Seperation of Church and State is what I believe in, where the legal system of a country is not guided by the religion of the country.
But this topic is going astray now. If you have any further questions, please feel free to PM me.
Either way, this man does not deserve to die, purely because he choose to leave Islam.
Nabil Mishima
13-09-09, 14:38
Sharia Law, IMHO, is a sham of a Legal System, and should never be accepted in the UK.
Sharia Law preaches hatred and fear.
Seperation of Church and State is what I believe in, where the legal system of a country is not guided by the religion of the country.
But this topic is going astray now. If you have any further questions, please feel free to PM me.
Either way, this man does not deserve to die, purely because he choose to leave Islam.
You said it all my friend. So human rights mean nothing in this case?
Could it be to do with strict laws in Afghanistan? The muslims in UK wnated Sharia law to be introduced here you know.
So if that happened, yeah I wouldn't be allowed to leave Islam. We don't integrate into society or so I'm told in UK. Do you think this is true?
@ Bobafet, that worries me......
This is what angers me.:mad:
Why should we the UK (we as in british born citizens) allow other religious laws to be allowed in our country. Surely if they live in our country, then they should abide by our laws, not theirs.
Now i'm not racist or prejudiced in anyway, but i hate it when other countries and religions impose their beliefs over ours in our country. And known how soft our country is, they will probably get their own way.
I can honestly see within 5-10 years time there being riots in our country if this situation is allowed to continue, as people are getting fed up with it.
(back on topic)
I feel sorry for this man, and he should be allowed to live in our country without fear of getting deported and for renouncing Islam.
Now i'm not racist or prejudiced in anyway, but i hate it when other countries and religions impose their beliefs over ours in our country. And known how soft our country is, they will probably get their own way.
I can honestly see within 5-10 years time there being riots in our country if this situation is allowed to continue, as people are getting fed up with it.
We have a problem in our country with gipsies and its starting to get really tense. Im not racist, i even have 2 photos wth 2 random black guys because i find them cool :D(we dont have many black guys here). I dont mind those who work and have a job but thats only about 5 percent of them. Others do nothing but crimes and politicians are supporting them with money, rather than finding a solution.
In recent months we had many marches of neo-Nazis, all of them were brutally pushed by the police and the first sign of civil war was that the place where one of the marches was held, in one village, the whole village stood with the neo-Nazis and against the police, shouting that when they need the police, they are not there to protect them against the agressive gipsies in the nearby village.
In conclusion, there will be a civil war, and it will be soon because people are starting to loose patience. I agree with No47 that foreignes should live with us in our country, not trying to make the country their own
there was a riot in harrow the other day
one of the reasons for the riot, though its no the real reason but more of an excuse, was the prevention of sharia law being introduced in britain
the riot was basically a rent a riot group of white british people vs. the police vs. muslims who follow sharia law and local muslims who had done nothing wrong
apart from the police and local people the two other groups were just looking for a fight, so i think although i personally disagree with the laws in question they shouldnt be rejected, but neither embraced with open arms otherwise situations like this will become more common
and they are becomming more common, 3 riots in the last month with 2 more planned
If it wasnt for this, i would happily show my support, but doing so may in fact result in the opposite of what i want happening
Nabil Mishima
13-09-09, 16:16
there was a riot in harrow the other day
one of the reasons for the riot, though its no the real reason but more of an excuse, was the prevention of sharia law being introduced in britain
the riot was basically a rent a riot group of white british people vs. the police vs. muslims who follow sharia law and local muslims who had done nothing wrong
apart from the police and local people the two other groups were just looking for a fight, so i think although i personally disagree with the laws in question they shouldnt be rejected, but neither embraced with open arms otherwise situations like this will become more common
and they are becomming more common, 3 riots in the last month with 2 more planned
If it wasnt for this, i would happily show my support, but doing so may in fact result in the opposite of what i want happening
Yes I was very annoyed when they wanted that law in UK. This isn't medievil times, we don't kill people for doing wrong. This is 2009......who they think they are?
i have a small note ...
first there is a HUGE difference between Sharia laws and our Stupid corrupted regimes which has nothing to do with Sharia law... there is not a single country in the world that is applying the Sharia even remotely correct
and the best example is Hussain case ...
first of all ... how was he sentenced death ( or even found guilty in the first place ) while he was not in front of the court ... ?!!
the Islamic rules about this case are very strict and heavily to the favor of Hussain ... unlike any other court , the goal of the court in such cases is to prove that he is inousent not to prove that he is guilty !! in other words you don't need a lawyer in these cases since the judge/judges will be the Lawyers
it is true that the penalty for leaving Islam is death , but that does not apply to Hussain case -which is again another example on how our Regimes has nothing to do with Islam- according to what he said ... he never been a Muslim to start with !! so this rule does not apply to him !!
similar case happened in Egypt few years ago with a guy named Abu Zaid ( i think ) the court spent 2 and half years trying to convince him that he was wrong but he insisted on his opinions ... was he executed ? no .. he was released since he was like this all his life ... he never been a Muslim to start with , so the rule does not apply on him ... same for Hussain case .
that rule apply only if the person ( with all his mental strength ) admit that he has no doubt that Islam is the True religion and yet he insist on leaving it ( for what ever reason ) .... this is why it is very rare to have such cases and it is even more rare to find some one guilty ...
and before you say : "even so, that it is not a reason to kill him ... " you have to understand something ... when some one leave Islam it is not that he is just leaving a religion ... no ... Islam is not a religion in the way other religions are , it is not a faith and worship thing only ... it is a complete system of ruling ... economy , politics , courts , social ...etc ... it is so huge and detailed that you will be shocked if you learn a little about it... a system that Bernardshow ( the British writer ) described it as a system that Europe would be lucky if it reached something similar to it in the next 200 years ...
in short ... when a person leave Islam ... it is act of to treason ... it is just like if some one in UK says ... that he does not believe in Democracy , he thinks that human rights are just a crap and he does not acknowledge the UK constitution ... what would happen to this person ... he will be arrested , he will punished and mostly will be requested to leave UK ... just as happened with Hussain case where he was found not fit to the UK standards so he was ordered to leave even though UK knows that he might be killed . in other words UK ( in an indirect way ) has executed that person because he does not fit the UK standards ....
same thing apply to Islam ... if you are a Muslim ... then live up the Islamic standards ... or leave ... if you want to be a UK citizen then you have live up to the UK values or leave ... right ?!
Ironically , Hussain is going to be executed by a court that has nothing to do with Sharia, in a country that has nothing to do with Islamic rules and values ....
I HATE OUR REGIMES ...
Sharia Law, IMHO, is a sham of a Legal System, and should never be accepted in the UK.
Sharia Law preaches hatred and fear.
TZM ... i respect you a lot ... but if you want to have an opinion ... then first know what you are talking about before you have an opinion ...
there is no relation ship between Sharia and this case ...
i said this before .. "Judging something is part from understanding it", and by the way this is a rule of thumb in the "sham of a Legal System". which means that if you want to pass a judgment over something ,you should understand that thing ... also if other had different opinions than you that is because they have different understanding
you are WAAAAAYYYY over the line ... you have just Insulted Islam and every Muslim on the forum ( i know you did not mean that ) and also violated the forums rules ...
what do you know about this "sham of a Legal System" ...? nothing ... and i am sure of that ... because if 10% of what you know is even remotly true ... you would not have said that ... and i think that i know what i am saying ... i have been a Muslim for the past 32 years ...
Nabil ... try to contact me on msn ...
there are many things that i would like to comment on in this topic but this might spin things out of control
ok .. i know that i went off the topic ... but since some information here were presented in a wrong way ... i thought that i should clear few things
and as TZM said ... lets keep any further discussions out of the topic on the PMs ... since such topics have the tendency to flam fast ...
i feel sorry for this poor guy ...
P.S.:
did i write the name of Bernardshow right ?!!
another P.S :
i don't want any one to think that i am angry with TZM , since the way that i have replied might seem a little strong ... i am cool
cewolf out
third P.S:
i forgot to add that i want to check to see if the penalty of leaveing Islam is Death or the MAXIMUM penalty is Death ... because i think that it depends on the case since i remember some cases that happened at the time of the Prophet -peace be upon him- where some has commited even great treason -like the case if Iben Salool (it is a long story , if the moderators allow to tell it i will) - and were pardoned for the benefit of the nation....
cewolf out
The Possessed
13-09-09, 21:39
This topic makes me sick. Religion's meant to be about teaching love and compassion for each other. It's about morals, having faith and forgiveness. Not about forms of nazism obsessed with forcing people's views through violence or murdering them.
i know that i am out of the topic again ... but i ask the moderators to allow me that ... since this is a serious topic ... misunderstanding this can fuel hatred and racism ...
many of the members here has said things ( with out knowing it ) that can be considered severely insulting and can easily flame rage and hatred among people ...
The Possessed:
what you said is true ... but you are viewing this the wrong way ... it is not about forcing people to embrace a certain view ... the case of Hussain here is a big mistake ... he should not be even questioned since -as i said before- he never been a Muslim to start with ...
as i said that apply only if some one fully convinced that Islam is the true Religion and yet chose to leave ... and again .. it is not just changing religion , it is waaay much more than that ... it is not just that he changed the way if his believes , what is between him and God is only between him and God , but it is WAAAY much more than that
just to imagine how much this is huge for us as , this is for us is as huge as crimes a against humanity for the west ... this is our ultimate red line .. Murder can be pardoned, even general treason can be pardoned ... but not that ...
it is not as simple as a personal believe ... i understand why many find this wrong , because all of you have the idea that Relegion is a personal choice for the person , and you think that this guy is going to be killed for his personal choice ...
it is not just a personal choice to us .. when some one leaves Islam while he has no doubt that it is the real religion ( System ) he is destroying the structure of the nation , Islam to us is more than what Democracy and Human rights and freedom means to the west !!
the west is lunching wars all over the world to protect democracy , freedom and human rights ... to protect their system ... and God only knows how many were killed in the name of that ... why is it too much when we want to protect our system ??
one more thing you should know, one of the reasons why there is a death penalty on leaving Islam ... is to make sure that no one becomes a Muslim unless he knows what is he doing ...
why does UK ( or any country ) has rules and conditions when some one want to become a citizen ... because they are horrible and don't want people to live with them .. nooo they want to protect their society , to make sure that this person is going to be a British citizen who will embrace the British values and rules ... to make sure that he/she did not become a citizen just to enjoy the benefits of being a UK citizen ... right ?
same here ...
a rule of thumb in Islam that no one should become a Muslim unless he is completely convinced and doing that on his FREE WILL ...
which means that he chose to become a Muslim without being FORCED , or without being TEMPTED ...
the Death penalty is to make sure that a person will not join Islam based on Temptation ( what ever type of temptation )
there are tens of thousands of people joining Islam every year in Europe ... every one of them knows (or supposed to know ) that there is a death penalty on leaving Islam ... but yet they become Muslims ... why did they do that while they know that there is a possible death penalty? ... because they are 100% sure of what they are doing ...
in other words the death penalty prevent Hypocrites form existing within the Islamic society ... either you are 100% Muslim or be what ever you want , you will be welcomed as a guest or a citizen what ever your religion is ...
exactly the same when UK put laws for people who wants to become UK citizens ... either you are 100% UK citizen ... or don't apply for nationality ... right ??
as i said i hope that this is a little more clear now ...
again it is not just a religion in the way people in the west view religion ... it is WAAAAAAYYYY much more complicated
Again , i know that i am out of the topic again ... but AGAIN i ask the moderators to allow me that ... since this is a serious topic ... misunderstanding this can fuel hatred and racism ...
many of the members here has said things ( with out knowing it ) that can be considered severely insulting and can easily flame rage and hatred among people ...
if i was not a person who understand ( a little ) the western way of thinking i would be very raged and angry from many posts here , so again i ask the moderators to allow this reply although i have went out side the topic ..
i hope that i have cleared things a little bit , and all you guys have found this post useful and helpful ...
ahhh one more thing ... even if some one was convicted with leaving Islam and sentenced to death ... that does not mean that he will be killed ... he is given 3 days to reconsider , if during the 3 days he change his mind ( even if he is lieing ) he will walk a way no questions asked ... after that he can leave and embrace what ever he wants ....
peace
cewolf out
thezombiemessia
14-09-09, 12:50
I apologise greatly for creating this topic, and letting this go on.
The goal was not to fuel any form of debate or hatred, it was purely to save the life of an innocent man.
Whether or not non-corrupt Sharia Law states that he would survive, he has been given the death penalty by the Afghanistan Government, so I was attempting to save him.
If anybody has any further question regarding Sharia Law, Human Rights, etc, etc, etc. I send people in either my direction, or the direction of cewolf.
Both of us are well educated in our respective areas, and are both quite happy to share information to the best of our abilities.
From now, the thread will be closed, as its purpose is only within the first post.
Again, many apologies.